Feb 26, 2009 15:02
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

être en aval de

French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters NGO/crisis management/ figurative use, nothing to do with \\
... un programme dont le principe est d***** ’être en aval des **** crises épidémiques, et d’éradiquer à terme le choléra à source
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An NGO responding to emergency situations (various emergencies, but here, it's a cholera epidemic).

I'm trying to figure out exactly what is meant here, in this figurative use of "en aval de".

So far, I'm guessing at the following posibilities - which have quite different meanings: to pre-empt/forestall; to be one step ahead; to respond quickly to; to catch the crisis early ...

I'm veering towards the last, but would be most grateful for any help with this - many thanks!

Discussion

Jocelyne S Mar 6, 2009:
If I were you, I would grade the question based on the term you actually used in your translation. If your chosen answer is not the correct translation of "en aval", however, I would not make a glossary entry to avoid all future confusion
Carol Gullidge (asker) Mar 5, 2009:
grading dilemma the difficulty here is that I still think that it should have been "en amont de" - which seems to be the general consensus.

So, should it be graded according to the intended sense, or the actual sense of the ST?
Carol Gullidge (asker) Mar 5, 2009:
Client's reply Well, you were all right, in various ways, which is going to make this incredibly hard to grade!

The client's reply is as follows:

"Le sens de « en aval de » dans ce contexte est de mener des actions préventives contre le choléra dans des zones à risque, afin de réduire les épidémies de choléra."

Interestingly, there's no mention of any mistake in the ST, which I find hard to reconcile...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 5, 2009:
Ambiguity, error in the original to be checked wit Ambiguity/error in the original? The term "être en aval de" means to be "in the aftermath of" as in "aval" (valley : downstream, lower down, following on from...). The term "être en amont de" means"to be one step ahead of" as in "amont" (mountain : upstream, preceding, before, higher than...).
The original suggests an eroneous choice of term!
Carol Gullidge (asker) Feb 26, 2009:
thanks
thanks so much verybody for the amazinf response - answers, comments, and discussion entries - so far!

This has been referred to the client, and I'll delay grading until I've received an answer. But I think you all deserve points, whatever the outcome!
Jack Dunwell Feb 26, 2009:
en amont seems to fit going back to source. And that also appears to be the meaning.
Carol Gullidge (asker) Feb 26, 2009:
"ETéradiquer à la source" I've been interpreting this as an ADDITIONAL, long-term objective, on top of the immediate short-term objective of wading in pre/post (whichever!) the epidemic. Or is it, I wonder...?
Jocelyne S Feb 26, 2009:
Agree with Emma I agree with Emma that the "éradiquer à la source" would certainly seem odd if the goal of the programme is to arrive after a crisis has occurred.
Carol Gullidge (asker) Feb 26, 2009:
pre-empting/responding good question, BD! therein lies the rub...
They do a lot of both - responding to emergencies, but with a lot of reconstruction/new infrastructure work as well to help prevent further human disasters
Carol Gullidge (asker) Feb 26, 2009:
et d’éradiquer à terme le choléra à source:
I'm pretty sure that this is an additional, long-term, aim, whereas the first part (the question) is their initial (short-term) response
B D Finch Feb 26, 2009:
Are they responding or pre-empting? If they are responding to emergency situations then they are intervening after, rather than before, the event. Desirable though it might be to anticipate where epidemics are going to break out and intervene first, that is a luxury not afforded to many NGOs in real life.
Carol Gullidge (asker) Feb 26, 2009:
client Q seems the right way to go, bearing in mind the 2 equally plausible answers, and the discussion going on here!

Emma Paulay Feb 26, 2009:
"éradiquer à la source" does suggest they mean "en amont"...
Martin Cassell Feb 26, 2009:
client Q then ... if the remainder of the text doesn't make it clear.
As Bourth says, the two get confused. But I don't think the context you have given actually rules out the "downstream" concept.
Carol Gullidge (asker) Feb 26, 2009:
downstream/after thanks Martin!
I entirely agree, but was trying to make sense of it. I would have thought they'd want to pre-empt (if possible!) any epidemics, rather than to arrive after it's taken hold - hence my confusion.
Bourth (X) Feb 26, 2009:
Error Agree with Martin that "en amont" would be logical here, as it is equally logical that that is what is meant (given "éradiquer à source"). Many people don't correctly distinguish "en amont" and "en aval".
polyglot45 Feb 26, 2009:
clearly it's a mistake in French it has to be pre-empting
Martin Cassell Feb 26, 2009:
downstream=after Carol, I could understand some of the possibilities you mention for "en amont", but not for "en aval", which generally implies following after/later/depending on/caused by.

Proposed translations

+4
4 mins
Selected

be one step ahead of

I would say that it means that they are trying to always be "one step ahead" of an epidemic, be reactive and able to anticipate.

Hope this helps,
Jocelyne
Peer comment(s):

neutral Martin Cassell : maybe for "en amont", but surely this is the opposite?
8 mins
Indeed, but the opposite makes no sense here (to me). I presume that it's a mistake in the original but agree with those above who suggest querying with the client.
agree Xia29
8 mins
Thank you. Of course, we really can't be sure, though.
agree berg
1 hr
Thank you. I still think that the asker should check with the client.
agree emiledgar : Larousse: ce qui est plus près du point d' aboutissement - it does make sense with this definition.
4 hrs
Thank you.
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Runs nicely in context.
6 days
Thank you Nikki.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "many thanks JS! Keeping one step ahead implies taking preventative measures - at least, in this context!"
+4
8 mins
French term (edited): être en aval de

in the aftermath

Difficult one here, because you would have thought that they wanted to anticipate or be "upstream of" epidemics, but in that case they would have used "en amont", and they haven't. Are they underlining their wish to be present in the aftermath ("downstream") of epidemics? Maybe..
Note from asker:
many thanks Rebecca - as you say "difficult one"...!
Peer comment(s):

agree Philippa Smith : It does seem strange they've used 'aval' rather than'amont', could be a mistake. If not, yes, aftermath, used for instance something like "programme designed to handle the aftermath...".
6 mins
agree liz askew
14 mins
agree whither has fle
1 day 4 hrs
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I agree that the is a contradiction in the original, where I suspect they really meant "en amont". An ambiguous note which it would be wise to clear with the client!
6 days
Something went wrong...
20 mins

to counteract

As Martin says, "en aval" is what comes after, not before, so this is their action in response to epidemics. I would use something like "counteracting" which could be seen as either anticipation or reaction but is a response to an event.

Note from asker:
many thanks, es ever, Emma! This was also a pretty good answer, and I wish the points could be shared
Something went wrong...
21 mins

to be prepared after the epidemic crises

Eurosurveillance - View Article
Planning epidemic intelligence during mass gathering events ... might require rapid intervention immediately before, during or after the event[8]; ... The potential need to prepare a daily report on the epidemiological situation for ...
www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=3100 - 42k - Cached - Similar pages
by R Kaiser - 2006 - Cited by 9 - Related articles

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Note added at 22 mins (2009-02-26 15:25:11 GMT)
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It is just that following epidemics such as flooding there is a danger of outbreaks of cholera etc. so they have to be prepared to take measures to prevent cholera occurring not just before but after the epidemic (flood) too:-)



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Note added at 25 mins (2009-02-26 15:28:16 GMT)
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Planning epidemic intelligence during mass gathering events
The planning process for epidemic intelligence during mass gatherings should include the following steps:

* Gathering of experience from previous events, thorough review of the literature, participation in the planning of events, or consultations;

* Assessing potential public health risks during the mass gathering and the capacity of the existing surveillance and response structures to detect and control them. The risk assessment should take into account the accessibility of the event site, the type of venue (e.g. outdoors or indoors, stadium or larger, less well-defined space), the likely demographics, risk factors and susceptibility of the people attending, environmental factors (such as weather conditions, food handling, water quality and sewage disposal), and communicable and non-infectious hazards of concern;

* Defining the epidemic intelligence objective during the mass gathering. An example for the general objective for epidemic intelligence during a mass gathering is to quickly detect emerging disease outbreaks or unusual patterns of disease or injury that might require rapid intervention immediately before, during or after the event[8];

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Note added at 27 mins (2009-02-26 15:29:27 GMT)
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Hi

I am rushing a bit with this, so take that into account too, bearing in mind what others have said....I don;t have time to take it all on board :-)

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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-02-26 18:07:25 GMT)
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Looking forward to hearing what your client has to say :-)

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Note added at 8 days (2009-03-07 09:30:34 GMT) Post-grading
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Thank you Carol!

Lateral thinking :-) :-)
Note from asker:
many thanks Liz! I think you very cleverly covered all contingencies!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

17 mins
Reference:

Un partenariat qui s’élargit aux questions de sécurité en amont et en aval des crises

Cette coopération croissante entre les Nations unies et l’Union européenne est facilitée par la conception très proche qu’ont les deux organisations de l’action de la communauté internationale en matière de gestion des crises (en particulier, la nécessité de mobiliser l’ensemble des instruments disponibles, qu’ils soient politiques, civils ou militaires).

Cette coopération est une source de légitimité renforcée pour les deux organisations :
- les opérations de l’UE bénéficient de la légitimité politique conférée par les mandats donnés par le Conseil de sécurité des Nations unies ;
- les Nations unies, à travers l’appui apporté par les missions PESD, bénéficient de la crédibilité et des moyens opérationnels apportés par l’UE pour conduire des opérations complexes sur des terrains difficiles.

Le partenariat entre les Nations unies et l’Union européenne a été formalisé dans une première déclaration conjointe signée le 24 septembre 2003 à la suite de l’opération Artemis, qui a été complétée par une nouvelle déclaration commune du 7 juin 2007.

Les échanges entre les deux secrétariats sont désormais quotidiens à New York comme à Bruxelles. Le Haut représentant pour la Politique étrangère et de sécurité commune (PESC) est intervenu à plusieurs reprises devant le Conseil de sécurité pour présenter les opérations militaires de l’Union européenne déployées en appui des Nations unies. Le Secrétaire général adjoint des Nations unies en charge des opérations de maintien de la paix s’exprime en moyenne deux fois par an devant le Comité politique et de sécurité de l’Union européenne (COPS). Enfin, un plan de travail pour la coopération entre les deux organisations a été défini par le COPS.

De nouvelles propositions concrètes de renforcement de la coopération entre les Nations unies et l’Union européenne (alerte précoce, entraînement et échange de personnels, développement d’une planification d’anticipation/générique en vue d’un appui de l’UE de courte durée à des missions des Nations unies, possibilité de laisser du matériel de l’UE au profit des Nations unies et inversement) ont été approuvées fin juillet 2008 au sein de l’UE.

Au-delà de la coopération en matière de gestion des crises, le partenariat entre les Nations unies et l’Union européenne est en train de se développer sur les questions de sécurité au sens large, en amont des crises (formation de personnels déployés dans les OMP des Nations unies, renforcement des capacités africaines de gestion des crises) comme en aval (réforme des systèmes de sécurité (RSS) ; processus de désarmement, démobilisation et réinsertion (DDR) ; appui à la Commission de consolidation de la paix des Nations unies par exemple).

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Note added at 51 mins (2009-02-26 15:53:28 GMT)
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Coopération UE-ONU en matière de gestion des crises
- [ Translate this page ]
Un partenariat qui s’élargit aux questions de sécurité en amont et en aval des crises. Cette coopération croissante entre les Nations unies et l’Union européenne est facilitée par la conception très proche qu’ont les deux organisations de l’action de la communauté internationale en matière de gestion des crises (en ...
www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/article_imprim.php3?id_article=67... - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral writeaway : URL? /thanks
21 mins
Coopération UE-ONU en matière de gestion des crises - [ Translate this page ] Un partenariat qui s’élargit aux questions de sécurité en amont et en aval des crises. Cette coopération croissante entre les Nations unies et l’Union européenne est facilitée
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