Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
subject / object pronouns
English answer:
definitely hypercorrection
Added to glossary by
Martina Pokupec (X)
Aug 12, 2011 16:58
12 yrs ago
14 viewers *
English term
subject / object pronouns
English
Other
Linguistics
grammar
Hi all,
I have a question regarding the US usage of subject pronoun "I" in the object position, especially after prepositions, e.g. *...between John and I; *...smarter than I
I've heard this on TV, spoken by Americans and I also heard it yesterday in a movie..
First I though it was a case of hyper-correction, but I need to ask: have the rules changed in this case? Has the usage affected grammar, so that now it would be OK to use the above examples as good grammar?
Thank you!
I have a question regarding the US usage of subject pronoun "I" in the object position, especially after prepositions, e.g. *...between John and I; *...smarter than I
I've heard this on TV, spoken by Americans and I also heard it yesterday in a movie..
First I though it was a case of hyper-correction, but I need to ask: have the rules changed in this case? Has the usage affected grammar, so that now it would be OK to use the above examples as good grammar?
Thank you!
Responses
| 4 +10 | definitely hypercorrection |
Michael Powers (PhD)
|
| 4 +6 | bad grammar |
Kim Metzger
|
Responses
+10
3 mins
Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
United States
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
United States
US Court Cert. 1980 Ph.D. 1981
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
136
Selected
definitely hypercorrection
The rules have not changed; unfortunately, most people in usage tend to hypercorrect. Definitely "between you and me" is grammatically correct. Some even say "between you and myself"
Mike
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Note added at 7 mins (2011-08-12 17:06:00 GMT)
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The rule I have always given to students that I have taught in the US is to state the sentence without the other object and then you will automatically select the correct pronoun (for native English speakers).
So instead of "give the ball to John and I", take out the "John" and then it will sound natural to almost everyone to say "gve the ball to me"
Mike
Mike
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 mins (2011-08-12 17:06:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The rule I have always given to students that I have taught in the US is to state the sentence without the other object and then you will automatically select the correct pronoun (for native English speakers).
So instead of "give the ball to John and I", take out the "John" and then it will sound natural to almost everyone to say "gve the ball to me"
Mike
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Melanie Nassar
: Because people were made insecure when their teachers/parents/friends constantly corrected every instance of John and me, even if it was correct. BTW, I think people use myself when they are not sure what is correct.
13 mins
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I agree with you on both counts. Mike
|
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| agree |
Lindsay Spratt
29 mins
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Thank you, Lindsay - Mike
|
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| agree |
Shera Lyn Parpia
44 mins
|
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Thank you, Shera - Mike
|
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| agree |
Tina Vonhof (X)
: Good way to explain it.
1 hr
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thank you, Tina - Mike
|
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| agree |
Veronika McLaren
1 hr
|
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Thank you, Veronika - Mike
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| agree |
Jack Doughty
1 hr
|
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Thank you, Jack - Mike
|
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| agree |
Jenni Lukac (X)
: Good idea to include the test.
1 hr
|
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Thank you, Jenni - Mike
|
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| agree |
Sheila Wilson
: It's one of the areas where my French EFL students can sometimes correct native speakers.
2 hrs
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Good for them - Mike
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| agree |
Bernhard Sulzer
: reminds me of the use in German: only without a preposition and in its function as subject or predicate nominative would "I/ich" be correct; or with conjunctions such as "als/as" He is the same as I (am). That's great, Mike. Greetings!
2 hrs
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I will mention that to my son. He is finishing his Ph.D. in Germanic Studies and will being go Berling again in October with a DAAD Fellowship for another year there. I hope to visit him there. Mike
|
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| agree |
Ildiko Santana
: Me thinketh this is good explanation ;)
8 hrs
|
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Me thank yourself - Mike
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you!"
+6
3 mins
Kim Metzger
Mexico
Mexico
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
Mexico
Committed to Quality and Service
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
187
bad grammar
And this mistake is made not only by Americans. I believe it's based on early education when pupils are told how horrible it is to say: me and John need to go to the bathroom. The teacher replies: It's John and I!!!
Note from asker:
| Thank you! I would gladly split points between the two answers, but I can't, so I went with most peer "agrees" |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: 'smarter than I' is arguably acceptable, since it could be taken as being short for 'smarter than I (am)'; but the first example is just plain wrong!
41 mins
|
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Yes indeed about "smarter than I (am).
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| agree |
Tina Vonhof (X)
59 mins
|
| agree |
Veronika McLaren
: with Tony
1 hr
|
| agree |
Jenni Lukac (X)
1 hr
|
| agree |
Bernhard Sulzer
: and with Tony and his conjunction comments regarding "I". See also my comments on Mike's answer.
3 hrs
|
| agree |
Thuy-PTT (X)
5 days
|
Discussion