Walden (asker) Jun 28, 2012:

Johanna Timm, thanks! I just saw your response. And now I've googled for "descriptively seen" + statistics, and have found it in statistics documents, so will leave it as it is. Many thanks, once again.

And apologies to all at Proz for having stated that the expression wanting translation was "anschaulich gesehen," which turned out to be a red herring. I'm not a very practiced user of this wonderful site.

Joseph Given (X) Jun 27, 2012:

This Wikipedia article also refers to eyeballing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_inspection

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

Sorry, Joseph, My "enough of guessing" referred to the problem others were pointing out -- that we still didn't know what the German was. "Eyeballing" won't do for this very formal text, I'm afraid, nor do I think it gets the meaning of "beschreibend" -- though I am grateful that you as well as others have spent some time on the issue.

Joseph Given (X) Jun 27, 2012:

Dear Walden I am taking time to try to answer your question. Coming away with "enough of the guessing", when eyeballing is a valid term is just insulting. My time is too precious for that. Goodnight.

Johanna Timm, PhD Jun 27, 2012:

Statistik ENG In terms of descriptive statistics… GER ein beschreibender Ansatz
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deskriptive_Statistik, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descriptive_statistics

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

OK, enough with the guessing If anyone's still there, the author just wrote me the following:
"In handelt sich dabei um Ergebnisse, die zwar statistisch nicht signifikant sind (z.B. weil die Gruppengrössen zu klein sind), jedoch auffällig sind oder Ergebnisse, die zwar statistisch signifikant sind, die jedoch die Voraussetzungen für ein Verfahren nicht erfüllen (z.B. bei Kreuztabellen ist in zu vielen Zellen der erwartete Wert kleiner 5).

Die deutsche Übersetzung ist "beschreibend".

But I'm still at a loss. Is there an English equivalent for this peculiar (to me) use of beschreibend?

Joseph Given (X) Jun 27, 2012:

eyballing in social sciences we would say (speaking from a psychology point of view)
eyeballing the chart/graph shows
which means interpreting the chart at a glance.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/eyeballing

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

Example from another text Thanks, Wendy. I am looking for something that will work across the board.

I just googled for "deskriptiv betrachtet" and found a study rather like mine, using the expression in just the same way my text uses "descriptively seen" (hurray):

"Zwischen den Gruppen wurde bei der Nachmessung statistisch kein signifikanter Unterschied festgestellt, jedoch erreichte die experimentelle Gruppe **deskriptiv betrachtet** deutlich bessere Ergebnisse bei der Nachmessung als die Kontrollgruppe."

But I still wouldn't know how to translate it! ...Anyone?

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

Speculation, yes. Non-existent phrase, no. The phrase exists, we just don't know what it is, and the author's not peeping. I'll let you all know as soon as she does. I've no interest in wasting people's time, so you should feel free not to answer. I came to Proz for answers like that of Paul Skidmore who pointed out that "deskriptiv betrachtet" is a social sciences phrase. I'm hoping he - or someone - might suggest an English equivalent.

Wendy Streitparth Jun 27, 2012:

Another neutral option would be "putting it differently/graphically", tho this doesn't work in all the sentences.

philgoddard Jun 27, 2012:

I think this is a meaningless question. You're asking us to translate a phrase that probably never existed, and speculate about what it might have been. If you don't think the English makes sense (and I agree it sounds odd), you should ask the author what they meant.

Joseph Given (X) Jun 27, 2012:

I think you're well helped with Cilian's suggestion.

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

OK to the red herring ...though I had found instances of it when I googled for it. If "deskriptiv betrachtet" is a social science phrase, I'd love to know how you translate that into English. Sorry about the guesswork, but this is often the fate of an ESL editor -- esp. when the text was not translated but written in English by a non-native speaker. Here's an interesting instance of the phrase: "At both pre- and post-test, a higher proportion of German-speaking families seemed to be receiving wages (at least descriptively seen). By contrast, more than half of the English-speaking families depended on subsidies." --Gack!

franglish Jun 27, 2012:

also "as an illustration"

Johanna Timm, PhD Jun 27, 2012:

possible other options for the German original:
nach außen hin, dem äußeren Verhalten nach
von außen gesehen, oberflächlich [betrachtet], dem äußeren Anschein nach

Paul Skidmore Jun 27, 2012:

anschaulich gesehen is a red herring hi Walden, just as "descriptively seen" is not a phrase the author will have seen in English, "anschaulich gesehen" is just as meaningless, if not more so, in German.

"deskriptiv betrachtet" is a social science phrase ... but we are all guessing as to whether this is what your author intended ...

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

You may very well be right, Horst. I looked for possible meanings for "anschaulich gesehen," only because "descriptively seen" is not a phrase the author will have seen anywhere in English. Therefore I supposed it might be a literal translation. No word from said author, as yet...

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

Statistics come into it, I'm sure Thus far Cilian's "in descriptive terms" may translate it best, but "in other words" could work in some cases. In most cases, in fact, it could with profit be left out as it adds precisely nothing. The full first line I gave you (with some changes from me) is: "Descriptively seen, the ability of the English-speaking mothers to speak German was still rather poor (00.2%; other groups: 0 to 0.1%)." So in fact the numerical data is being included in the "descriptive" sentence. (I should have pointed that out before, sorry, if I weren't feeling hobbled with confidentiality agreements I'd have done this better.) I think it would be fine minus the first two words.

Horst Huber (X) Jun 27, 2012:

Quite frankly, I would hesitate to consider "anschaulich gesehen" even remotely as a translation of "descriptively seen". It is merely pleonastic. One might have something "anschaulich beschrieben" or "dargestellt", meaning it is not overly abstract, or ideological etc. I find the phrase at best somewhat confusing.

Wolf Draeger Jun 27, 2012:

Observe Perhaps something along the lines of "it was observed that" or "on observation"?

Joseph Given (X) Jun 27, 2012:

That sounds good Cilian

Sarah Bessioud Jun 27, 2012:

Keep it simple? "In other words" may be a simple solution, especially if the sentence before contains statistics.

Cilian O'Tuama Jun 27, 2012:

or in desciptive terms, from a descriptive viewpoint...

Cilian O'Tuama Jun 27, 2012:

Is it about statistics? "deskriptiv betrachtet" as opposed to "numerisch betrachtet" might be a possibilität.
"Expressed descriptively" (as opp. to numerically) could be the Eng equivalent.

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

why anschaulich gesehen? Because it is a literal translation of "descriptively seen." I'll change some of the words in the lines so that you can get more context and I won't violate my confidentiality agreement: "Descriptively seen, more mothers in the English-speaking group than in the other four groups were divorced." Here's another: "Descriptively seen, the ability of the English-speaking mothers to speak German was still rather poor." These lines come afterr or in the midst of formulaic descriptions -- i.e. summaries of findings that use formulas. "Descriptively seen..." seems to announce a verbal as opposed to a formulaic description. I've asked the author what the German is, but haven't yet heard back and time is short. However, if I get that info from her, I'll pass it on.

Walden (asker) Jun 27, 2012:

not google translator I wasn't using google translator, just googling for "anschaulich gesehen" which is my best bet for the translation of "descriptively seen." I will see if I can provide more context.

Cilian O'Tuama Jun 27, 2012:

anschaulich gesehen? What makes you think that was the German?
Your second x seems to stand for a language, but what are the other two? Well formulated questions have a better chance of success.

Joseph Given (X) Jun 27, 2012:

Impossible to answer without more context and with only a google translator as info