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Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

акторство

English translation:

actorship

Added to glossary by Oleg Lozinskiy
Apr 25, 2016 17:43
8 yrs ago
Russian term

акторство

Russian to English Social Sciences Religion
Неумение отделить (может быть, в чём-то вынужденное) социальное акторство церкви от религиозного служения приводит к ограниченным, а порой – к просто обыденным суждениям;
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 actorship
4 +3 Here: the church's social role
Change log

Apr 27, 2016 09:36: Oleg Lozinskiy Created KOG entry

Discussion

Oleg Lozinskiy May 14, 2016:
To: Rachel Thank you for your input/insight to/into the discussion.

P.S. Special appreciation for the 'native tongue'. BTW, isn't 'tongue' French 'by origin'?
Rachel Douglas May 14, 2016:
Nativity Misha, no more on the social sciences, I promise.
Oleg, here's my opinion about "native" speakers, referring to your points iii through v. I consider the other points less relevant.

[(iii) grown/brought up in the TL country ... to which age?]
For a native "feel" for a language, I think people need to have been brought up in that milieu for some time before puberty.
[(iv) learnt / studied how to speak/write in TL in the TL country?]
Yes, at a young age. (For example, I studied Russian in SPb at age 19 and became fluent, but not "native" in Russian.)
[(v) educated in the TL country? if so, up to which level of education?]
At last high school.

Myself, I translate only into my native tongue, English. But I've edited lots of translations done by non-native speakers of English, both En > Ru and the reverse. In my experience, some of the worst En > Ru results come from emigres who spoke "kitchen" Russian in their families, but received their high school education in English. Their translations are illiterate. As for Ru > En translations, I've edited translations by native speakers of Russian who claim to be "native" in English, but their English is crippled and non-idiomatic.
Oleg Lozinskiy May 14, 2016:
To: The Misha What about answering my QUESTION (in line with the ISO 17100:2015 'Translation services -- Requirements for translation services')???

ISO 17100:2015 provides requirements for the core processes, resources, and other aspects necessary for the delivery of a quality translation service that meets applicable specifications.

Application of ISO 17100:2015 also provides the means by which a translation service provider (TSP) can demonstrate conformity of specified translation services to ISO 17100:2015 and the capability of its processes and resources to deliver a translation service that will meet the client's and other applicable specifications.

Applicable specifications can include those of the client, of the TSP itself, and of any relevant industry codes, best-practice guides, or legislation.

The use of raw output from machine translation plus post-editing is outside the scope of ISO 17100:2015.

ISO 17100:2015 does not apply to interpreting services.

--> http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=59149
The Misha May 14, 2016:
"...a misconception that the social sciences can be made "rigorous" - which, of course, they cannot because they are not sciences to begin with. And so old man Popper is bound to squirm in his grave forever and ever, whether we like it or not. Let it go, Rachel. It's like fighting the windmills.
Oleg Lozinskiy May 14, 2016:
To: The Misha Thanks for your active participation in the discussion on the PANEL.

However/whatever, I haven't (or SHOULD it / MUST it be 'I don't have got') an answer to my question posted at 12:13 on Apr 26 (or SHOULD it / MUST it be 26 Apr @ 13 minutes after noon), [namely: (or IS the 'colon'/'two-spot' superfluous in this particular case)] to my question 'What makes a 'native speaker'/'native translator'/'native interpreter'?

In particular/particularly/notably/(more) specifically/especially/included but not limited/without limitation/incidentally/among other things/inter alia, whether such a 'native' MUST/SHOULD/MAY/MIGHT/CAN/COULD satisfy the criteria below, i.e.

(i) conceived in the TL country?
(ii) born in the TL country?
(iii) grown/brought up in the TL country? if so, up to which age?
(iv) learnt / studied how to speak/write in TL in the TL country?
(v) educated in the TL country? if so, up to which level of education? high school? university? Bachelor? Master? PhD?
(vi) having a hands-on experience in translation/interpretation to/from TL? if so, for how long? in which environment? at which level?
(vii) doing all translation 'out of one's head'???
Rachel Douglas May 14, 2016:
Piroshki I weep. Am off gluten and dairy.
The Misha May 14, 2016:
Rachel, As I said before, this is the Frankenenglish originally perpetuated by the global do gooder organizations at your expense and mine (because we all know whose taxes go to fund this racket, right?). Originally, these "actors" fall on their ample resources to perpetuate such crimes against the King's and the President's English, and then the linguomonstrosities they create acquire a life of their own - and bang, one day you and I are out of business because dazhe koze ponyatno that there is aktorstvo and actorness, and even actorship. I mean, really, did you expect English to really remain English in the age of globalization? Personally, I am not worried though. I'd be just as happy driving a tuck. Or maybe baking pirozhki:)
Rachel Douglas May 14, 2016:
But what I was suggesting... ... is that this practice of inventing words (in English or in other languages) and assigning them meanings somewhat arbitrarily is horrible, especially when done by people who don't have a native (excuse me) mastery of the language in which they are writing. It happens all the time, especially in the social sciences. I believe that this practice stems from a misconception that the social sciences can be made "rigorous" by the assignment of meanings to terms, as if those words were mathematical operators.
Oleg Lozinskiy May 14, 2016:
Actorness vs. actorship And some people do distinguish between these two notions with 'actorness' being an innate trait of human nature vs. 'actorship' being the outward manifestation of this intrinsic feature.
Rachel Douglas May 14, 2016:
For The Misha Wanna read something really scary? This is a footnote in somebody's doctoral dissertation:

According to Rüland, actorness refers to the ‘capacities of regional organisations to become identifiable, to aggregate interests, formulate goals and politicise, make and implement decisions’. See Rüland, “ASEAN and the European Union: a Bumpy Interregional Relationship” (2001): 6 and Jürgen Rüland, “Transregional Relations: The Asia - Europe Meeting - A Functional Analysis” (Paper prepared for the International Conference Asia and Europe on the Eve of 21st Century, Chulalongkorn University,
Bangkok, 19-20 August 1999). Notably, Hettne preferred the term ‘actorship’, see Hettne, “Regional Governance and Global Order” (2005): 111.
Oleg Lozinskiy Apr 26, 2016:
I don't know what makes a 'native speaker' or, moreover, a 'native translator' or 'native interpreter'...

Could anybody itemize / prioritize the required 'must' components that distinguish such a person from 'non-natives'?

E.g., (i) conceived in the Target Language (TL) country? (ii) born in the TL country? (iii) grown/brought up in the TL country? if so, up to which age? (iv) learnt / studied how to speak/write in TL in the TL country? (v) educated in the TL country? if so, up to which level of education? high school? university? Bachelor? Master? PhD? (vi) having had hands-on experience in translation / interpretation to/from TL? if so, for how long? in which environment? at which level? (vii) doing all translations 'out of one's head' rather than performing thorough research using dictionaries/vocabularies/glossaries? (viii) which country is the TL country if TL is common to several countries/states/provinces/regions speaking various - sometimes incomprehensible - dialects?

Any and all other suggestions are welcome.
The Misha Apr 25, 2016:
I don't know about you, folks, but no amount of UN speak or any other such nonnative European gobbledygook will convince me that "actorship" is a word in natural English - any more so, that is, than "aktorstvo" is one in Russian. To be sure, to paraphrase the living classic, "there are more Englishes than one," so perhaps askers on here and elsewhere should make it clear from the beginning which of those "Englishes" they are trying to translate into. This way we will surely save ourselves a lot of time and bad blood.

Proposed translations

+1
36 mins
Selected

actorship

E.g.,

EU as a Global Actor: An Anatomy of Actorship
Björn Hettne
School of Global Studies, University of Gothenburg
https://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...

Regional Actorship: A Comparative Approach to Interregionalism
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-007-7566-4_4

EU Actorship in the Non-Proliferation area-
An Analysis
https://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...

Co-actorship in the Development of European Law-Making - The Quality of European Legislation and its Implementation and Application in the National Legal Order
http://www.asser.nl/asserpress/books/?rId=4338

Political Actorship And Identity
Thomas Meyer Professor of Political Science, University of Dortmund
https://books.google.ru/books?id=9-teuT8I8k0C&pg=PA25&lpg=PA...

Social actorship is a concept that does not have a precise definition in literature. People apply social rules to many as-pects of human-computer interaction ...
https://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...

См. также: https://www.google.ru/#newwindow=1&tbs=li:1&q="social actors...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 час (2016-04-25 19:51:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

P.S. Когда мне доводится (довольно часто) переводить (EN->RU) 'actors'/'actorship', я стараюсь использовать обычно применяемые в ООНовских документах 'субъект действия'/'субъектность действия' (что зачастую встречает неприятие/сопротивление со стороны 'редакторов' переводческих агентств, а иногда - и 'конечных заказчиков'). Но в данном случае RU->EN перевода я бы употребил давно устоявшийся в западной политологии/социологии термин 'actorship', отдавая себе полный отчет в том, что автор исходника предпочел воспользоваться калькой с английского, отнюдь не имея в виду 'актёрство'.
Peer comment(s):
agree Turdimurod Rakhmanov
10 hrs
Спасибо, Турдимурот!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks for your help! "
+3
25 mins

Here: the church's social role

Naturally, the quality of the original in this case leaves much to be desired
Peer comment(s):
agree Irakli G : or the role of the church as a social actor
24 mins
neutral Oleg Lozinskiy : If 'role', then the source text should read 'социальная/общественная роль' (which, BTW, can be 'passive' as well as 'active', and - if 'active' - 'proactive' or 'retroactive').
1 hr
agree Ilan Rubin (X) : Or "social role" in quotation marks
2 hrs
agree Oleksiy Markunin : Намного изящнее, чем оригинал
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
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