May 10, 2017 15:50
7 yrs ago
German term

antiziperend

German to English Other Religion
Auf der Bronzetür der Gnesener Kathedrale ist ein Bischof dargestellt, der die Rückführung der Leiche des Prager Bischofs Wojciech-Adalbert aus dem Prussenland begleitet und einer ersten Grablegung des Heiligen beiwohnt ; bei der historischen Detailtreue, welche die in Bronze gegossenen Darstellungen ansonsten aufweisen, kann es sich bei diesem Bischof nur um Unger handeln, und nicht um Radim-Gaudentius, der dann antiziperend gedacht sein müsste.

This extract is from an essay on the beginnings of the Archdiocese of Poznan. I am having trouble translating the end of the sentence. What exactly is meant by "antiziperend gedacht"?

Thanks for your help!

Discussion

Björn Vrooman May 10, 2017:
@Daniel I'm not sure what Phil refers to, but Radim-Gaudentius and Unger are two different people. Unger was apparently the one present during the "Akt von Gnesen":
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akt_von_Gnesen

The doors were installed much later, in 1175. Maybe it's too late for me right now, but I can't seem to figure it out either. At first, I thought the author meant that the otherwise historically accurate scenes on the doors depict a bishop that shouldn't be there - it should have been Radim, who - according to Phil's link "accompanied Adalbert on his fatal journey to Prussia in 997." Yours reads: "aus dem Prussenland begleitet und einer ersten Grablegung des Heiligen." The Congress mentioned above was not at the same time.

Edit: On second thought, turn it around. Radim hadn't been Archbishop yet at the time of Adalbert's body being returned from Prussia, so it could have only been Unger. I am still not clear about which contradiction the author is hinting at. It's either that the scenes on the doors depict the wrong bishop or that people would've thought it was Radim on these doors, but actually it wasn't. Take your pick.

Best
Daniel Gray (asker) May 10, 2017:
Thanks Phil I think you are on the right lines there.
philgoddard May 10, 2017:
If that's the case, you could probably research it fairly easily. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gniezno_Doors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radim_Gaudentius
Katia DG May 10, 2017:
Yes, I very much think so.
philgoddard May 10, 2017:
Could it mean that he didn't become a bishop until after the figure was made?
Katia DG May 10, 2017:
Antizipierend, not antiziperend. Something along the line of "thought of in advance".

Proposed translations

+4
6 hrs
Selected

an act of prescience

... whose inclusion/commemoration would have to be an act of prescience.
(since he wasn't around at the time)

I think the second problem here is how to translate 'müsste'.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="an act of prescience"&oq=...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-05-10 22:47:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Radzim Gaudenty) (c. 970 – c. 1020)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radim_Gaudentius

Unger (died 9 June 1012) was a bishop at Poznań...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unger_(Bishop_of_Poland)
Peer comment(s):

agree Björn Vrooman : Cf. discussion. My Polish is rudimentary at best, and I can't seem to find much in German or English about the scenes depicted on the doors. I gave two options in the discussion box; either way, this seems to be what the author was trying to say.
1 hr
agree David Hollywood : and maybe "should be" for "müsste"
2 hrs
agree Mair A-W (PhD)
10 hrs
agree Katia DG
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks!"
4 mins

try "antizipierend"

It's just a spelling mistake. Then you can translate.
Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : So what does it mean?
29 mins
I am not the translator in this case.
neutral Kim Metzger : This would make a good discussion topic or reference comment, but not so much as a translation attempt.
2 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : this is hardly an answer
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
57 mins

anticipating

would be the literal translation
Peer comment(s):

neutral Kim Metzger : Stating the obvious?
1 hr
Something went wrong...
21 hrs

has had a premonition

. . . So it must be Unger, and not R-G., which means the artist has had a premonition

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2017-05-11 12:58:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or rather HAD a premonition
Something went wrong...
3 days 11 hrs

mentally supplied

"In light of the historical detail conveyed by the bronze-cast depictions,
the bishop depicted can only be Unger rather than Radim-Gaudentius whose image has to be mentally supplied (with hindsight)"

I think the author’s point is that even though Radim-Gaudentius eventually became Archbishop of Gniezno and was later considered the first Polish archbishop, it was Unger who was depicted on the bronze door. This may suggest that by the time the now famous depictions were added to the bronze door, Gaudentius’ rise had not yet come to full fruition. I am not sure his rise could have been “anticipated” but then again many nation states create their own narratives, treating them like foregone conclusions rather than insights from hindsight.
Something went wrong...
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