May 10, 2017 15:50
7 yrs ago
German term
antiziperend
German to English
Other
Religion
Auf der Bronzetür der Gnesener Kathedrale ist ein Bischof dargestellt, der die Rückführung der Leiche des Prager Bischofs Wojciech-Adalbert aus dem Prussenland begleitet und einer ersten Grablegung des Heiligen beiwohnt ; bei der historischen Detailtreue, welche die in Bronze gegossenen Darstellungen ansonsten aufweisen, kann es sich bei diesem Bischof nur um Unger handeln, und nicht um Radim-Gaudentius, der dann antiziperend gedacht sein müsste.
This extract is from an essay on the beginnings of the Archdiocese of Poznan. I am having trouble translating the end of the sentence. What exactly is meant by "antiziperend gedacht"?
Thanks for your help!
This extract is from an essay on the beginnings of the Archdiocese of Poznan. I am having trouble translating the end of the sentence. What exactly is meant by "antiziperend gedacht"?
Thanks for your help!
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +4 | an act of prescience | Lancashireman |
5 | try "antizipierend" | Jordan Arzoglou |
3 | anticipating | Ellen Kraus |
3 | has had a premonition | Anahí Seri |
3 | mentally supplied | Michael Martin, MA |
Proposed translations
+4
6 hrs
Selected
an act of prescience
... whose inclusion/commemoration would have to be an act of prescience.
(since he wasn't around at the time)
I think the second problem here is how to translate 'müsste'.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="an act of prescience"&oq=...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2017-05-10 22:47:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Radzim Gaudenty) (c. 970 – c. 1020)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radim_Gaudentius
Unger (died 9 June 1012) was a bishop at Poznań...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unger_(Bishop_of_Poland)
(since he wasn't around at the time)
I think the second problem here is how to translate 'müsste'.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="an act of prescience"&oq=...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2017-05-10 22:47:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Radzim Gaudenty) (c. 970 – c. 1020)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radim_Gaudentius
Unger (died 9 June 1012) was a bishop at Poznań...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unger_(Bishop_of_Poland)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Björn Vrooman
: Cf. discussion. My Polish is rudimentary at best, and I can't seem to find much in German or English about the scenes depicted on the doors. I gave two options in the discussion box; either way, this seems to be what the author was trying to say.
1 hr
|
agree |
David Hollywood
: and maybe "should be" for "müsste"
2 hrs
|
agree |
Mair A-W (PhD)
10 hrs
|
agree |
Katia DG
14 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks!"
4 mins
try "antizipierend"
It's just a spelling mistake. Then you can translate.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
philgoddard
: So what does it mean?
29 mins
|
I am not the translator in this case.
|
|
neutral |
Kim Metzger
: This would make a good discussion topic or reference comment, but not so much as a translation attempt.
2 hrs
|
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: this is hardly an answer
5 hrs
|
57 mins
anticipating
would be the literal translation
21 hrs
has had a premonition
. . . So it must be Unger, and not R-G., which means the artist has had a premonition
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2017-05-11 12:58:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or rather HAD a premonition
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2017-05-11 12:58:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or rather HAD a premonition
3 days 11 hrs
mentally supplied
"In light of the historical detail conveyed by the bronze-cast depictions,
the bishop depicted can only be Unger rather than Radim-Gaudentius whose image has to be mentally supplied (with hindsight)"
I think the author’s point is that even though Radim-Gaudentius eventually became Archbishop of Gniezno and was later considered the first Polish archbishop, it was Unger who was depicted on the bronze door. This may suggest that by the time the now famous depictions were added to the bronze door, Gaudentius’ rise had not yet come to full fruition. I am not sure his rise could have been “anticipated” but then again many nation states create their own narratives, treating them like foregone conclusions rather than insights from hindsight.
the bishop depicted can only be Unger rather than Radim-Gaudentius whose image has to be mentally supplied (with hindsight)"
I think the author’s point is that even though Radim-Gaudentius eventually became Archbishop of Gniezno and was later considered the first Polish archbishop, it was Unger who was depicted on the bronze door. This may suggest that by the time the now famous depictions were added to the bronze door, Gaudentius’ rise had not yet come to full fruition. I am not sure his rise could have been “anticipated” but then again many nation states create their own narratives, treating them like foregone conclusions rather than insights from hindsight.
Discussion
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akt_von_Gnesen
The doors were installed much later, in 1175. Maybe it's too late for me right now, but I can't seem to figure it out either. At first, I thought the author meant that the otherwise historically accurate scenes on the doors depict a bishop that shouldn't be there - it should have been Radim, who - according to Phil's link "accompanied Adalbert on his fatal journey to Prussia in 997." Yours reads: "aus dem Prussenland begleitet und einer ersten Grablegung des Heiligen." The Congress mentioned above was not at the same time.
Edit: On second thought, turn it around. Radim hadn't been Archbishop yet at the time of Adalbert's body being returned from Prussia, so it could have only been Unger. I am still not clear about which contradiction the author is hinting at. It's either that the scenes on the doors depict the wrong bishop or that people would've thought it was Radim on these doors, but actually it wasn't. Take your pick.
Best
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radim_Gaudentius