This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
  1. KudoZ™ Top
  2. Spanish to English
  3. Poetry & Literature

Por contra de la relevancia

English translation: running counter to the importance

20:08 Apr 29, 2019
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
Spanish term or phrase: Por contra de la relevancia
I have to admit I'm completely stumped by this one. The full sentence is "Por contra de la relevancia a estas alturas de la imprenta para la difusión y lectura de las obras de entretenimiento, algunas colecciones de textos no fueron impresas."

The context is an academic paper on Golden Age literature, in particular the historical underpinnings of Cervantes's Novelas ejemplares. I'm pretty sure the author is from Spain, and I'm writing in American English.

Here's what I've done with the rest of the sentence:

**Por contra de la relevancia** at this point of the printing process for the dissemination and reading of entertaining works, some collections of texts were not printed.

Any suggestions appreciated!
Linda Grabner
United States
Local time: 09:13
English translation:running counter to the importance
Explanation:
This is the best way I can think of at the moment to express what I believe it means. Perhaps someone will come up with a better idea.

"Por contra" is an established, though not very common, expression in European (not American) Spanish for "in/by contrast" or "on the other hand". It is almost certainly a calque of the French par contre. So it's a synonym of "en cambio" or "contrariamente". Fundéu considers it acceptable, but recommends using an alternative:

"Por el contrario, en cambio o contrariamente son alternativas en español a por contra, locución también aceptable en el español de España.
En los medios de comunicación es habitual encontrar frases como «El Real Madrid ganó en su campo el pasado sábado; por contra, el Atlético perdió» [...]
Pese a que tradicionalmente se ha venido censurando el uso de por contra por considerarse un calco del francés, se trata de una locución plenamente asentada en España y aparece recogida en el Diccionario del español actual, de Seco, Andrés y Ramos. Su uso resulta extraño en América, sin embargo, donde se prefieren las alternativas mencionadas."
https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/por-contraen-espanol-se-...

"Por contra de", by extension, basically means "in contrast to" or "contrary to". It is unusual (and indeed has no equivalent in French, where par contre de is not used in this way). But occasional examples can be found:

"Por contra de lo que ocurrió en Andalucía tras sus elecciones autonómicas, despertando la movilización de numerosos colectivos al conocer los resultados, en Valladolid han querido salir a la calle antes de las generales del 28A"
https://kaosenlared.net/video-y-fotos-el-movimiento-antifasc...

"El activista alemán ha declarado que, por contra de lo que el Tribunal ha alegado, no es un crimen sostener una fotografía de Öcalan"
https://anfespanol.com/europa/activista-aleman-seguire-exigi...

"la mayoría de delegados norteamericanos preferían la propuesta liberal, por contra de aquellos que provenían de África, Europa y Asia."
https://www.evangelicodigital.com/mundo/6025/iglesia-metodis...

So the basic idea here is the contrast between the widespread circulation of fiction in print and the existence of collections that were not printed. The "colecciones de textos no impresas" bucked the trend, as you might say. I think you might express this as "running counter to"; I'm less sure that "in contrast to" or "contrary to" really work in this context, but you might consider these too.

The other point is that, as is often the case, "relevance" is not the right word for "relevancia" here. The basic meaning of "relevancia" is importance or significance:

"relevancia
1. f. Cualidad o condición de relevante, importancia, significación."
https://dle.rae.es/?id=VpxMLGU

"relevante
1. adj. Sobresaliente, destacado.
2. adj. Importante, significativo"
https://dle.rae.es/?id=VpzDZF6

Relevant means pertinent or germane: related to the matter at hand. Sometimes "relevante" means that, but often, as here, it means important.

One or two further suggestions, if I may. For "a estas alturas" I would say "by this time", and for "obras de entretenimiento" I think "works of entertainment" would be better than "entertaining works". "Literatura de entretenimiento", a concept Cervantes addresses in the prologue to the Novelas ejemplares, really means more or less prose fiction.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2019-04-29 21:53:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually "contrary to" might work, I think.

The idea is similar to "despite", but it's not quite the same, and I'm sure that if the author had meant that he/she would have written "a pesar de" or "pese a".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2019-04-30 08:55:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

On the question of "naturalness", which Carol has raised. To me it's a high priority; we are always aiming to make our translations read like originals. At the same time, we are (or should be) aiming to be as faithful as possible to the author's intended meaning. There can be a trade-off. Assessing "naturalness" is subjective; if a possible rendering jars, you have to find an alternative. But our job is not to write what we ourselves would ideally have said in the context; it is to find a solution that is acceptably idiomatic and at the same time accurate. I believe my proposal meets that requirement. In my view, "naturalness" can be too narrowly conceived as what amounts to cliché, phrases that are commonplace and endlessly repeated. Now that Internet searches are so quick and easy we tend to google what we're proposing to say to see how many others have said it before, and the more we find the more "natural" we consider it. But I think this can be a fallacy.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2019-04-30 21:27:02 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Linda. That's a generous decision. I hope Cecilia doesn't feel hard done by.
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 15:13
Grading comment
Although I did not end up using "running counter to", I did concur with so much of the rest of your explanation that it must be overall considered the must helpful.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3Despite the relevance
Cecilia Gowar
4 +1running counter to the importance
Charles Davis
3 +1Irrespective of their merits
Robert Forstag


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Despite the relevance


Explanation:
I believe the original Spanish is flawed and they meant to say "a pesar de la relevancia".

What's more, I found myself caring about the central characters and – despite the relevance of blood in the story – I'm delighted to report that ...
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/oct/05/truth-about-ce...

Cecilia Gowar
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 227
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Cecilia. I ended up combining yours and Charles's suggestions.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Carol Gullidge: this sounds natural in EN
1 hr
  -> Thanks Carol!
agree  neilmac: "Despite" is what I was thinking as well…
14 hrs
  -> Thanks Neil!
agree  Marian Vieyra
21 hrs
  -> Thanks Marian!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Irrespective of their merits


Explanation:
Or, “importance” instead of “merits.”

It seems that the intended meaning here is that many works worthy of the widest possible diffusion were not published and distributed during the period in question (for whatever reason).

Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 09:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 195
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, Robert.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Carol Gullidge: I like "irrespective" and "importance"
1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
running counter to the importance


Explanation:
This is the best way I can think of at the moment to express what I believe it means. Perhaps someone will come up with a better idea.

"Por contra" is an established, though not very common, expression in European (not American) Spanish for "in/by contrast" or "on the other hand". It is almost certainly a calque of the French par contre. So it's a synonym of "en cambio" or "contrariamente". Fundéu considers it acceptable, but recommends using an alternative:

"Por el contrario, en cambio o contrariamente son alternativas en español a por contra, locución también aceptable en el español de España.
En los medios de comunicación es habitual encontrar frases como «El Real Madrid ganó en su campo el pasado sábado; por contra, el Atlético perdió» [...]
Pese a que tradicionalmente se ha venido censurando el uso de por contra por considerarse un calco del francés, se trata de una locución plenamente asentada en España y aparece recogida en el Diccionario del español actual, de Seco, Andrés y Ramos. Su uso resulta extraño en América, sin embargo, donde se prefieren las alternativas mencionadas."
https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/por-contraen-espanol-se-...

"Por contra de", by extension, basically means "in contrast to" or "contrary to". It is unusual (and indeed has no equivalent in French, where par contre de is not used in this way). But occasional examples can be found:

"Por contra de lo que ocurrió en Andalucía tras sus elecciones autonómicas, despertando la movilización de numerosos colectivos al conocer los resultados, en Valladolid han querido salir a la calle antes de las generales del 28A"
https://kaosenlared.net/video-y-fotos-el-movimiento-antifasc...

"El activista alemán ha declarado que, por contra de lo que el Tribunal ha alegado, no es un crimen sostener una fotografía de Öcalan"
https://anfespanol.com/europa/activista-aleman-seguire-exigi...

"la mayoría de delegados norteamericanos preferían la propuesta liberal, por contra de aquellos que provenían de África, Europa y Asia."
https://www.evangelicodigital.com/mundo/6025/iglesia-metodis...

So the basic idea here is the contrast between the widespread circulation of fiction in print and the existence of collections that were not printed. The "colecciones de textos no impresas" bucked the trend, as you might say. I think you might express this as "running counter to"; I'm less sure that "in contrast to" or "contrary to" really work in this context, but you might consider these too.

The other point is that, as is often the case, "relevance" is not the right word for "relevancia" here. The basic meaning of "relevancia" is importance or significance:

"relevancia
1. f. Cualidad o condición de relevante, importancia, significación."
https://dle.rae.es/?id=VpxMLGU

"relevante
1. adj. Sobresaliente, destacado.
2. adj. Importante, significativo"
https://dle.rae.es/?id=VpzDZF6

Relevant means pertinent or germane: related to the matter at hand. Sometimes "relevante" means that, but often, as here, it means important.

One or two further suggestions, if I may. For "a estas alturas" I would say "by this time", and for "obras de entretenimiento" I think "works of entertainment" would be better than "entertaining works". "Literatura de entretenimiento", a concept Cervantes addresses in the prologue to the Novelas ejemplares, really means more or less prose fiction.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2019-04-29 21:53:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually "contrary to" might work, I think.

The idea is similar to "despite", but it's not quite the same, and I'm sure that if the author had meant that he/she would have written "a pesar de" or "pese a".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2019-04-30 08:55:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

On the question of "naturalness", which Carol has raised. To me it's a high priority; we are always aiming to make our translations read like originals. At the same time, we are (or should be) aiming to be as faithful as possible to the author's intended meaning. There can be a trade-off. Assessing "naturalness" is subjective; if a possible rendering jars, you have to find an alternative. But our job is not to write what we ourselves would ideally have said in the context; it is to find a solution that is acceptably idiomatic and at the same time accurate. I believe my proposal meets that requirement. In my view, "naturalness" can be too narrowly conceived as what amounts to cliché, phrases that are commonplace and endlessly repeated. Now that Internet searches are so quick and easy we tend to google what we're proposing to say to see how many others have said it before, and the more we find the more "natural" we consider it. But I think this can be a fallacy.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2019-04-30 21:27:02 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Linda. That's a generous decision. I hope Cecilia doesn't feel hard done by.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 15:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 296
Grading comment
Although I did not end up using "running counter to", I did concur with so much of the rest of your explanation that it must be overall considered the must helpful.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, as always, Charles, for the very detailed explanation. I found it quite helpful --if for no other reason than that it confirmed my own suspicions-- even though I ultimately ended up using "despite" in any case.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Carol Gullidge: Charles: I feel this doesn't end up as one of your best renditions into natural English :(//yes it did sound rather patronising, for which I apologise, but I stand by my verdict; I am a proponent of simple English, whether in legal, academic, etc. texts
15 mins
  -> I rather object to your patronising tone. // Thanks :-) And my reaction was over-tetchy, for which I apologise. I still think this is perfectly idiomatic, and I really do think it matters to try to express exactly what the author is trying to say.
agree  Beatriz Ramírez de Haro: Excelente explicación. Ese es sin duda el sentido, y entiendo como tú que se debe recoger, aunque sea a costa de una llaneza o naturalidad que tampoco existe en el original. En cualquier caso, "contrary to" parece una solución correcta.
1 hr
  -> Muchas gracias, Bea :-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:
ProZ.com term search
Search millions of term translations
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search