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Spanish to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / poesía barroca española - EL BAILE DE LA GASCONA
Spanish term or phrase:con arcos y flechas se hace señor
Dear colleagues, I can't seem to be able to make heads or tails of the first stanza. It's quite possible that the meaning is staring right at me but I can't see it. Suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance.
¿Dónde va la niña bonita a buscar el amor? Pues volando con alas combate, **con arcos y flechas se hace señor.**
No te fíes de un niño ciego, que no es honor, porque a un niño vendado y travieso dejarle jugando será lo mejor.
Pues tu cara es lucida, trigueña, de buen color, no la entregues por fácil empleo a hombres risueños que muestran amor.
Explanation: Hi Lydia, As I said, I wouldn't dare to translate 17th-century poetry into English! I just gave a literal translation in order to explain the meaning of which I am certain (thus my maximum level of confidence).
The structure is very obvious in Spanish because amor refers both to the feeling of love and to el dios Amor (synonymous with Cupid), but you might need to change the English structure into something like:
Pretty girl, don't give your heart away for love fights with flying wings and dominates with bow and arrow
I'm sure that you will find the best way. Good luck!
I really appreciate your input. I've concluded that it's not referring to the 'girl' but to Love/Cupid. Beatriz had suggested this and I believe she's right.
After researching and giving this a lot of thought, I have to agree that it is, in fact, referring to Love/Cupid. I would prefer not closing without grading and am hoping you decide to post an answer. Thanks!
@Lydia. Well, the writer managed to refer to him without mentioning him. The ref. to bow and arrow (singular better, maybe), and a blindfolded boy (Cupid is blindfolded, right? or is that just the Statue of Liberty?) should be enough. If they don't get it, it's just too bad.
After researching and reading all the valuable references and opinions here expressed, I would have to agree it refers to Cupid. The question now is how to include the little bugger without naming him!
Could be, but it's hard to say because neither the poem nor the poet/musician that wrote it are well known. In any case, the classical [Greco-Roman] reference to Cupid rules out the Middle Ages.
Hi, yes I understand it's Baroque literature, but I just wonder what period the poem is set in... Could it in fact be about a previous century, in the same way that, e.g., Tennyson wrote "The Passing of Arthur" so many centuries later, or Shakespeare wrote so many historical plays...? And this fiction, after all, no?
Yes, Eleanor was "una mujer de armas tomar" a few centuries earlier. According to Lydia's question this is Baroque literature, so basically 17th century [from the end of the 16th well into the 18th].
is a very well known datum, that probably a Spanish high school student could be aware of. I had the good luck of having Victoria Cirlot as a professor back in 1982, when she delivered her "Literaturas Romances" at the Barcelona Central University... Here is another reference. Naturalmente, la equiparación de la amada/señor con un castillo que el caballero debía conquistar por medio de la guerra, era en sí misma una inversión absurda de la fidelidad, pues que el leal vasallo intentara servir al señor/dama asaltando su fortaleza para una vez vencida apoderarse de él/ella y de su bien más preciado (virginidad), era en términos feudales un delito de traición. https://www.academia.edu/5201044/Representaciones_femeninas_...
your link). In this one is given as "my lord" https://www.encyclopedia.com/literature-and-arts/language-li... The Beloved. The lady to whom the song, or suit, is addressed is a stereotype. Physically she is blond and fair, with stylized features and figure that vary little within the tradition. She may be addressed with the masculine midons (my lord); and the relation, in many of its formal aspects, between lover and lady is a highly conventional sexual version of the feudal relation between lord and vassal. The lady is almost invariably someone else's wife; and, if she is not, the love proposed by the knight is rarely directed explicitly toward marriage. In medieval religious terms, therefore, courtly love is nearly always illicit and usually adulterous. A major source of excitement in the songs is the threat of discovery by a jealous husband. Variations of this form, however, appear early in the tradition, and the nature of fin amor from this point of view is one of the most important aspects of its literary history.
Btw, I'm not denying that your quote does exist in Wikipedia; however, I do wonder who wrote that article (the milord one), and would need to see this corroborated elsewhere. And I still can't see how it fits the particular line in question!
But also the lady becomes the "lord" as it can be seen in Courtly love: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtly_love Poets adopted the terminology of feudalism, declaring themselves the vassal of the lady and addressing her as midons (my lord), which had dual benefits: allowing the poet to use a code name (so as to avoid having to reveal the lady's name) and at the same time flattering her by addressing her as his lord. The troubadour's model of the ideal lady was the wife of his employer or lord, a lady of higher status, usually the rich and powerful female head of the castle. So the "niña bonita" the pretty girl becomes "midons" and that solves the conundrum.
but I wouldn't dare to translate 17th-century poetry into English! I just wanted to explain the meaning. The structure is very obvious in Spanish because amor refers both to the feeling of love and to el dios Amor which is synonymous with Cupido. It's a well-worn image, so go ahead and post a nice answer.
You should post it as an answer, Beatriz: Cupid takes control with a bow and arrow. Or something similar. Maybe: The fight is fought with flying wings Control is gained with a bow and arrow.
so as to actually avoid mentioning Cupid, as the original does.
and still agree with the general interpretation, but on reflection, am not totally convinced that this interpretation actually translates the term in question.
Love is the one who becomes the master with bow and arrow (quite a familiar image!!). As for punctuation, I would not put a lot of stock in... isn't this oral tradition?
Lydia: Are you sure the punctuation of this stanza is right? After reading the last verse of the stanza I had the feeling (just a feeling though) that a comma might be missing. I mean the following: **con arcos y flechas se hace, señor.** **with bows and arrows it is achieved, my lord.**
Well, this is just a possibility. The only version online I found has no comma either...
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
17 mins confidence:
with bows and arrows, she dominates
Explanation: Where goes the pretty girl, looking for love? Well, she flies, with valiant wings, With bows and arrows, she dominates.
Don't trust a blind child; there's nothing honorable about that, Because the best thing to do with a truly naughty boy, already bandaged, Is to leave him playing by himself. That will be better.
Well, you have a pretty face, brown-hair. It's of good color. Don't give it up for easy use, To laughing men who (pretend to) show love.
Michael Cohn United States Local time: 21:47 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English
Explanation: I don't think the girl can be the subject of "se hace señor". And I'd prefer "arrows and bows" to "bows and arrows", which, to my ears at any rate, sounds trite and infantile.
Lester Tattersall United Kingdom Local time: 03:47 Native speaker of: English
5 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +4
Bows and arrows make a man
Explanation: I read this slightly differently; the way I see it is that the girl is being advised on where to find a worthy suitor - the answer is on the battlefield, where men really are men. She is being advised not to fall for anything less.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 14 hrs (2019-07-01 16:12:13 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
this is (vaguely!) my interpretation of the stanza, and please don't take it as a suggested translation! It is merely to show where I'm coming from...
Where does a pretty girl go looking for love? Well, take to your wings, and fly off to battle, For of fighting and strife are real men made.
----- it then continues with warnings not to fall for (Cupid's) wayward arrows nor for the false smiles of anyone feigning love, etc.... But all this has already been admirably covered by Beatriz!
Carol Gullidge United Kingdom Local time: 03:47 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 315