Sep 23, 2019 07:44
4 yrs ago
22 viewers *
English term
For due and valuable consideration
English to French
Law/Patents
Law: Patents, Trademarks, Copyright
(in a contract) contrat de cession
For due and valuable consideration, the receipt of which is acknowledged by Assignor, Assignor hereby assigns to Assignee all its right, title and interest in and to the Patents, and in and to all and any inventions disclosed in the Patents, including:
Proposed translations
(French)
References
| For due and valuable consideration |
Germaine
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Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
Non-PRO (1): mchd
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Proposed translations
-1
25 mins
Selected
moyennant bonne et valable contrepartie
Bonjour imouimou,
"Moyennant bonne et valable contrepartie"
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_deDE846DE846&biw=1...
http://www.wordscope.com/f2712/none/legal/uebersetzung/engli...
"consideration" = "contrepartie"
https://iate.europa.eu/search/standard/result/1569226039758/...
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Note added at 26 mins (2019-09-23 08:11:00 GMT)
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"15. Indemnité : Moyennant bonne et valable contrepartie"
https://advancedbionics.com/com/en/portals/user-agreements/t...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
B D Finch
: "Valuable" doesn't mean "valid".
3 hrs
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| disagree |
Bridget Jean
: "valable" is not appropriate here
5 hrs
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| disagree |
Daryo
: "valuable consideration" is not about "wrong" or "right" [invalid/valid] consideration, but about the offered "consideration" having or not any value at all - for the one it is offered to.
10 hrs
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| agree |
Eliza Hall
: This actually works because consideration in US/UK contract law is about contract validity. It's not about actual money or things of financial value being exchanged. BD Finch's answer is better but this works.
1 day 6 hrs
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Thank you, Eliza!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "merci!"
-2
1 hr
Jean Charles CODINA
France
France
Native in French
Specializes in field
France
Finance, Insurance, Tourism and Web
Native in: French (Variants: Belgian, Canadian, Swiss, Standard-France) 
, Spanish (Variants: Panamanian, Venezuelan, Canarian, Puerto Rican, Costa Rican, Dominican, Salvadoran, Mexican, Argentine, Ecuadorian , Cuban, Paraguayan, Standard-Spain, Latin American, Chilean, Guatemalan) 
Works in: Spanish to French, French to Spanish, English to French, and 7 more.
Pour une contrepartie en bonne et due forme
Pour une contrepartie en bonne et due forme...
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: NO - the concept of "en bonne et due forme" can hardly apply to the "consideration" that is part of a contract OTOH it could apply to what is offered as "consideration" in some cases but even then it's not about "consideration".
36 mins
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| disagree |
B D Finch
: Not the meaning of "valuable".
2 hrs
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+1
3 hrs
Sylvie LE BRAS
France
France
Native in French
France
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, Spanish to French, French, and 1 more.
moyennant une contrepartie à titre onéreux suffisante
suggestion
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: makes no sense / illogical combination: "à titre onéreux" means you won't get something for nothing and wouldn't apply to what is offered as consideration, but to what is exchanged for the consideration.
7 hrs
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Rien d'illogique, et les réfs. fournies vont dans ce sens. See IATE: "for valuable consideration" = à titre onéreux
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| agree |
Germaine
: C'est exactement ça. Il n'y a rien d'illogique à obtenir une contrepartie à titre onéreux (= acquittement de certaines charges ou moyennant paiement) et suffisante.
16 hrs
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Merci, Germaine ! En accord avec vos réfs.
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| agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
21 hrs
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Merci !
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| disagree |
Eliza Hall
: This actually doesn't mean any payment was made at all, much less a sufficient payment. It could be one dollar, or a promise to do some act in the future... valuable consideration can be almost anything; money is just one possibility.
1 day 2 hrs
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| agree |
Ph_B (X)
: même si « contrepartie onéreuse » est plus courant en France. Par souci de précision, « suffisante » ne fait pas partie de la question (c'est dans la suite de la phrase).
1 day 6 hrs
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+2
3 hrs
moyennant une contrepartie de valeur
"Valuable consideration" is given by Harraps Law Dictionary as "contrepartie de valeur".
www.apses.org › doc › chap5_march_R__soc_prof
... sous forme monétaire (mais pas forcément, le troc est aussi un échange marchand) et induit un échange de produits avec contrepartie de valeur équivalente.
Only medium, because I wasn't sure how to incorporate "due", which could be translated as "exigible".
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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-09-23 11:43:06 GMT)
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Note that "valuable" in day-to-day language means of high value. That is not what it means here. It means having a value, which is an older meaning of the word that is still used in a legal context.
www.apses.org › doc › chap5_march_R__soc_prof
... sous forme monétaire (mais pas forcément, le troc est aussi un échange marchand) et induit un échange de produits avec contrepartie de valeur équivalente.
Only medium, because I wasn't sure how to incorporate "due", which could be translated as "exigible".
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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-09-23 11:43:06 GMT)
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Note that "valuable" in day-to-day language means of high value. That is not what it means here. It means having a value, which is an older meaning of the word that is still used in a legal context.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Daryo
: exactly that, except for the "due ..." part that is slightly odd [combined with THIS TYPE of "consideration"] even in the ST (very very few ghits - sounds like a kind of rarely repeated error) OTOH "good and valuable ..." ghits aplenty!
6 hrs
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Thanks Daryo. "Due" isn't really odd. It means necessary/required.
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| agree |
Eliza Hall
: Yes, this is it. "De valeur" is vague enough to fit the EN (which is incredibly vague). And BDF, you're right that "due" is not odd; this is just legalese.
1 day 2 hrs
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Thanks Eliza. I think that peppercorns are still sometimes mentioned.
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| neutral |
Germaine
: Ceci n'est qu'un calque de l'anglais. Alors bien sûr, pour un anglophone, c'est ça et rien d'autre.// Il ne s'agit pas de droit comparé, mais de traduction et cette traduction existe, tant en common law qu'en droit civiliste.
1 day 7 hrs
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If the jurisdiction is England and Wales, or based on English law, then it has to translate those concepts, not try to fit with French law.
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Reference comments
20 hrs
Reference:
For due and valuable consideration
for valuable consideration - à titre onéreux
OBS: Value is often used as an abbreviation for "valuable consideration," especially in the phrases "purchaser for value," "holder for value," etc. (Jowitt's, 2nd ed., 1977, p. 1849).
Value may consist of spiritual or aesthetic qualities, or in utility in use, or in the amount of money or other goods which could be obtained in exchange for the thing in question. In legal contexts, the last is the sense usually relevant, in such phrases as "holder for value" or "purchaser for value," in each of which "value" means "having paid a reasonable equivalent in money." [Oxford Companion to Law, 1980, p. 1270].
OBS : Ce syntagme figure dans diverses expressions telles que «purchaser for valuable consideration, bailment for valuable consideration», etc., et s'oppose aux adjectifs «gratuitous» et «voluntary» rendus par «à titre gratuit» ou «gratuit».
On veillera à éviter l'emploi de la locution «contre valeur» qui est un calque de l'anglais.
for a consideration, for valuable consideration – à titre onéreux, moyennant contrepartie, moyennant rétribution, contre rémunération
valuable consideration – contrepartie à titre onéreux
fair and valuable consideration – contrepartie à titre onéreux et juste
good and valuation consideration – contrepartie à titre onéreux et valable
DR. A titre onéreux. Sous condition d'acquitter certaines charges; moyennant paiement.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/onéreux
for due consideration - en considération d'une contrepartie suffisante, en considération d'une prestation suffisante
OBS : Dans tous les contrats à titre onéreux, le débiteur ne s'engage qu'en considération d'une contrepartie. [...] On peut affirmer que la cause des obligations créées par les contrats à titre onéreux est la considération d'une contre-prestation.
Voir aussi (Juridictionnaire):
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/juridi/in...
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Note added at 1 day 12 hrs (2019-09-24 20:07:49 GMT)
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Dans les nombreuses espèces d’actes juridiques, on oppose les actes à titre gratuit et les actes à titre onéreux… l’intention libérale est génératrice de l’acte à titre gratuit, la réciprocité d’avantages est le fondement de l’acte à titre onéreux… En droit, est par conséquent qualifié de gratuit l’acte dont l’auteur qui l’accomplit ou l’établit sans y être tenu n’exige aucune contrepartie pécuniaire ou aucune contreprestation particulière… L’acte à titre onéreux, au contraire, est accompli moyennant soit une contrepartie qui est de la nature d’une prestation monétaire, soit une prestation pécuniairement appréciable.…
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/juridi/in...
VEDETTE: for valuable consideration
SYNONYMES: for value (41279)
GÉNÉRIQUES: valuable consideration (40780)
RENVOIS ANAL. (V. AUSSI): good and valuable consideration (40784), non-gratuitous (88257)
ÉQUIVALENT 1: à titre onéreux
http://www.juriterm.ca/
OBS: Value is often used as an abbreviation for "valuable consideration," especially in the phrases "purchaser for value," "holder for value," etc. (Jowitt's, 2nd ed., 1977, p. 1849).
Value may consist of spiritual or aesthetic qualities, or in utility in use, or in the amount of money or other goods which could be obtained in exchange for the thing in question. In legal contexts, the last is the sense usually relevant, in such phrases as "holder for value" or "purchaser for value," in each of which "value" means "having paid a reasonable equivalent in money." [Oxford Companion to Law, 1980, p. 1270].
OBS : Ce syntagme figure dans diverses expressions telles que «purchaser for valuable consideration, bailment for valuable consideration», etc., et s'oppose aux adjectifs «gratuitous» et «voluntary» rendus par «à titre gratuit» ou «gratuit».
On veillera à éviter l'emploi de la locution «contre valeur» qui est un calque de l'anglais.
for a consideration, for valuable consideration – à titre onéreux, moyennant contrepartie, moyennant rétribution, contre rémunération
valuable consideration – contrepartie à titre onéreux
fair and valuable consideration – contrepartie à titre onéreux et juste
good and valuation consideration – contrepartie à titre onéreux et valable
DR. A titre onéreux. Sous condition d'acquitter certaines charges; moyennant paiement.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/onéreux
for due consideration - en considération d'une contrepartie suffisante, en considération d'une prestation suffisante
OBS : Dans tous les contrats à titre onéreux, le débiteur ne s'engage qu'en considération d'une contrepartie. [...] On peut affirmer que la cause des obligations créées par les contrats à titre onéreux est la considération d'une contre-prestation.
Voir aussi (Juridictionnaire):
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/juridi/in...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 12 hrs (2019-09-24 20:07:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Dans les nombreuses espèces d’actes juridiques, on oppose les actes à titre gratuit et les actes à titre onéreux… l’intention libérale est génératrice de l’acte à titre gratuit, la réciprocité d’avantages est le fondement de l’acte à titre onéreux… En droit, est par conséquent qualifié de gratuit l’acte dont l’auteur qui l’accomplit ou l’établit sans y être tenu n’exige aucune contrepartie pécuniaire ou aucune contreprestation particulière… L’acte à titre onéreux, au contraire, est accompli moyennant soit une contrepartie qui est de la nature d’une prestation monétaire, soit une prestation pécuniairement appréciable.…
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/juridi/in...
VEDETTE: for valuable consideration
SYNONYMES: for value (41279)
GÉNÉRIQUES: valuable consideration (40780)
RENVOIS ANAL. (V. AUSSI): good and valuable consideration (40784), non-gratuitous (88257)
ÉQUIVALENT 1: à titre onéreux
http://www.juriterm.ca/
Reference:
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Sylvie LE BRAS
: bonnes réfs
1 hr
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Merci, Sylvie.
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| neutral |
Eliza Hall
: Purchaser/holder/etc. for value isn't the same thing. See discussion.
9 hrs
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Who says the opposite? Is'nt "for valuable consideration" the same as "for valuable consideration"? N'y a-t-il pas de cheveux autour du pou?
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Discussion
Pour le Ballentine’s Law Dictionary, Legal Assistant Edition, la « valuable consideration » est une « Consideration that, in law, is sufficient to support a contract. Such consideration may be… in the release of a right or the compromise of a demand, or in mutual promises. » De son côté, le Black’s Law Dictionary (8e éd.), définit « valuable : Worth a good price; having financial or market value. »
http://www.cttj.ca/Documents/droit_contrats/valuable_gratuit...
Se pourrait-il que « valeur » ait le sens le plus restrictif?
Le plus drôle, dans ce débat, c’est que pour le CTTJ, « contrepartie à titre onéreux » est un équivalent qui nous semble à la fois plus juste et plus facile à comprendre...» que "contrepartie de valeur". (!)
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/onéreux
How can such a definition be "too narrow" ?
Allow me to doubt that "for (due and) valuable consideration" is just a legalese stock phrase that is inserted... to prevent the parties from arguing... that there was no contract". You don't see it in a gratuitous contract, do you? In fact, the expression carries the notion of "mutuality" required in a contract :
...a contract must show that both parties are bound in some way. The act or promise of one party must be performed or given in exchange for something actually done or promised by the other.
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?la...
And yes, there is an exact equivalent in French carrying the same notion: à titre onéreux. Sure, it's French, not Frenglish. But you will find it in at least half a dozen Common Law dictionaries.
And yes, Germaine, it's un calque de l'anglais. But this is an English legal term we're talking about, and it doesn't have any exact equivalent in French law. You literally don't have a word for it, so we have to make something up.
The term "purchaser for value" is from property law (usually real property), not contract law. It is used to distinguish a person who legitimately buys property from a person to whom property is transferred as part of a possible fraud.
If X owns a house, but then loses a lawsuit and is ordered to pay $100,000, and they transfer title in the house to their child or friend (or sells it to them for $10 or something) just to keep the lawsuit-winner from putting a lien on the house, the child or friend has to give the house back. But if X sells the house for a reasonable price to someone who doesn't know about the lawsuit, the buyer gets to keep the house.
A purchaser for value paid a reasonable amount of money for the property. A party to a contract that says "valuable consideration" did NOT necessarily pay ANY money at all.
https://definitions.uslegal.com/b/bona-fide-purchaser-for-va...
Valuable consideration can be anything whatsoever. Money is just one possibility. "Valuable consideration does not necessarily have to be equal in value to what is received, and it need not be translatable into dollars and cents. It is sufficient for the consideration to consist of a performance or a promise to perform that the promisor (the person making the promise) regards as having value."
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Valuable Cons...
tenir dûment compte de
prendre dûment en considération
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?l...
but THAT meaning is completely irrelevant for this ST - wrong kind of "consideration"!