se donnait la comédie

English translation: was a delusional prima donna

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:se donnait la comédie
English translation:was a delusional prima donna
Entered by: Barbara Cochran, MFA

13:51 Aug 8, 2021
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / From An Art History Book
French term or phrase: se donnait la comédie
Contexte:

Goering, homme de décision, fit connaître le jour suivant les conséquences pratiques à tirer de ses directives : les objets d’art que le Führer désire acquérir et ceux que lui-même a choisis avec l’intention de les acheter pour sa collection, devront être chargés immédiatement dans deux wagons de chemin de fer accrochés à son train spécial pour le retour à Berlin11.
Le sort en était donc jeté – les œuvres d’art confisquées étaient purement et simplement enlevées – quel que fût le protocole impérial avec lequel le Reichsmarschall les attachait à son char.
J’ai souvent pensé que Goering se donnait la comédie et que tout ce processus avait été rêvé avant d’être réalisé. Il jouissait de se voir traînant après lui les trophées d’une victoire.

Merci Beaucoup,

Barbara
Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
Local time: 23:03
was putting on a show for his own enjoyment
Explanation:
or

"was creating his own show"

but that is ambiguous - "his" could be interpreted as "he" being the lead actor OR as "he" being the one commissioning the show OR as "he" being the intended audience for the show.
Selected response from:

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:03
Grading comment
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5self-dramatising
Helen Shiner
3 +4was putting on a performance
Conor McAuley
3 +2Was putting on an act
ormiston
4was a showoff
Katarina Peters
4was admiring himself
Johannes Gleim
3 +1was on (something of) an ego trip
Jennifer Levey
3had been acting the clown
Adrian MM.
3liked to play to the gallery
polyglot45
3was delusional
David Hollywood
3was putting on a show for his own enjoyment
Daryo
Summary of reference entries provided
Donner la comédie
Emmanuella
donner la comédie; se donner la comédie
Nikki Scott-Despaigne

Discussion entries: 18





  

Answers


39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
self-dramatising


Explanation:
It was exactly the sort of high-risk, self-dramatising situation that the writer revelled in, even if it embarrassed his estranged wife Martha Gellhorn, who took her job as a war reporter far more seriously.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190812-day-hemingway-liberated...

Goering was absolutely about self-dramatising for effect.



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Note added at 41 mins (2021-08-08 14:33:24 GMT)
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Though obviously you’ll want the US spelling :-)

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Note added at 51 mins (2021-08-08 14:42:52 GMT)
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http://www.historytoday.com/archive/heinrich-himmler-reichsf...

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Hollywood: "self-dramatising" is nice and fits the bill
3 mins
  -> Thank you, David; no question he was delusional, too ;-)

agree  Emmanuella: https://www.google.com/search?q=goring self dramatising&oq=g...
18 mins
  -> Thanks, Emmanuella. Yes. All of the key Nazis did so.

neutral  ph-b (X): Isn't this se mettre en scène (which isn't the same as se donner la comédie)?
3 hrs
  -> Possibly. This whole text reads to me as if it has been translated from German into French and must now be translated again into EN. This episode is absolutely part of Goering’s self-dramatisation, so I find the FR rather weak/ Precisely your description.

agree  writeaway
6 hrs
  -> Thanks, writeaway.

agree  Barbara Carrara
17 hrs
  -> Thanks, Barbara

neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: I think that given the tone of the French, this sounds a little too contemporary for the register. I know, I'm nitpicking! ;-)
19 hrs
  -> The text is a contemporary art history paper/book. This is a term used very much in current discussions of these Nazi leaders - my own area of research actually.

agree  Rachel Fell
1 day 1 hr
  -> Thanks, Rachel!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
was a showoff


Explanation:
suggestion

Katarina Peters
Canada
Local time: 23:03
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  ph-b (X): se?
3 hrs
  -> a self-mocking showoff?
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
had been acting the clown


Explanation:
Perchance no need for a plethora of discussion entries when Hermann Göring, like failed chicken farmer: Heinrich Himmler, had been figures of tragi-comedy. No such label can be attached or 'tethered' to Adolf Eichmann who, as everyone knows, had attended the same school in Linz as Adolf H. and Ludwig Wittgenstein.

Example sentence(s):
  • What's So Funny About Hermann Goering? Or, Why I'm Afraid of (Political) Clowns

    Reference: http://espressobongo.typepad.com/espresso-bongo/2010/11/what...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  ph-b (X): se?
3 hrs
  -> se comporter comme un fou: act or behave like a nincompoop. The verb 'acts' like a reflexive https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/comportement/... DEU: sich wichtigtuerisch verhalten > swagger
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
liked to play to the gallery


Explanation:
another option -
he was a showman
he fancied himself as an actor
he had delusions of grandeur

polyglot45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  ph-b (X): Yes, but doesn't the text say that G. himself was the gallery, as it were (se donner la comédie)?
2 hrs
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
was delusional


Explanation:
:)

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Note added at 19 mins (2021-08-08 14:11:01 GMT)
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characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder

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Note added at 21 mins (2021-08-08 14:13:33 GMT)
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my first thought was "showing off" and indeed would be in line with Göring's slippery character traits

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Note added at 22 mins (2021-08-08 14:14:32 GMT)
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"playacting" as an alternative

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Note added at 25 mins (2021-08-08 14:16:51 GMT)
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looking forward to native speaker reactions

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Note added at 27 mins (2021-08-08 14:19:22 GMT)
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"putting on a show"

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Note added at 28 mins (2021-08-08 14:20:04 GMT)
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deleted my first post and thanks for your agree on that Conner

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Note added at 28 mins (2021-08-08 14:20:34 GMT)
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Conor

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Note added at 30 mins (2021-08-08 14:22:08 GMT)
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really just means "showing off"

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Note added at 33 mins (2021-08-08 14:25:11 GMT)
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Göring was indeed delusional but should have left my first post in as this is more a case of showing off or playacting

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Note added at 36 mins (2021-08-08 14:28:23 GMT)
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anyway the main thing is to get the right idea so....

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Note added at 1 hr (2021-08-08 15:50:38 GMT)
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sorry I deleted my initial answer

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Note added at 1 hr (2021-08-08 15:51:21 GMT)
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mais tant pis

David Hollywood
Local time: 00:03
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  ph-b (X): se?
4 hrs

neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Whether this is true or not, I think that it is a conclusion that might be drawn but is not an accurate rendering. The FR describes a "symptom" and that is the element to be focused on here.
20 hrs
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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
was putting on a performance


Explanation:
The more common construction is "se donner à la" something, I think, but I presume that this means the same thing.

la comédie : acting

un comédien : an actor, more often a theatre actor if I'm not mistaken


When someone is creating a bit of a scene or a bit of a fuss in France, you will often here, "Arrête ta comédie !".

"Arrête ton cinéma !" is similar.


I think there is a better way of putting this but it's not quite coming to me.

Maybe

creating a bit of a scene

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Note added at 31 mins (2021-08-08 14:23:11 GMT)
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trying to get attention


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Note added at 3 hrs (2021-08-08 16:57:56 GMT)
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not here, but HEAR, oops, apologies

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Note added at 3 hrs (2021-08-08 17:09:27 GMT)
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putting on a show

showboating: an annoying form of behaviour, especially in sport, that is intended to attract attention or admiration

Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 05:03
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Phil!

neutral  ph-b (X): se?/There's no such expression as se donner la comédie (as opposed to donner la comédie), i.e. it is relevant./ERR.: There is, actually, but see my 2nd post in the discussion on the relevance of se.
4 hrs
  -> Has no relevance, it's just part of the expression. / Read the first line of my explanation. / To be honest, I have lost interest in this question, for obvious reasons, and also I'm in the middle of a massive project that I'm also project-managing.

agree  Michele Fauble: putting on an act
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Michele!

agree  Nicole Acher
9 hrs
  -> Thanks Nicole!

agree  Julie Barber: yes, I would see it as role playing a part that he has already thought out
19 hrs
  -> Thanks very much Julie!
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Was putting on an act


Explanation:
You have plenty suggestions but here's mine. I think this would flow well into the rest of you sentence

ormiston
Local time: 05:03
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Andrew Bramhall
8 mins

neutral  ph-b (X): se?
1 hr

agree  Julie Barber: I would see it as role playing a part that he has already thought out
16 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
was admiring himself


Explanation:
What about this reflexive construction: 'I have often thought that Goering was admiring himself' or similar?

Johannes Gleim
Local time: 05:03
Native speaker of: German
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
was on (something of) an ego trip


Explanation:
An option that brings together an element of delusion coupled with self-glorification (ph-b's 'se').

Jennifer Levey
Chile
Local time: 23:03
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Daryo: Being on an "ego trip" is definitely true, but in this text it's not presented that way.
4 hrs

agree  ph-b (X): Not for me to comment on this as a translation (register?), but I think that's the idea I tried to explain in my discussion posts.
7 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
was putting on a show for his own enjoyment


Explanation:
or

"was creating his own show"

but that is ambiguous - "his" could be interpreted as "he" being the lead actor OR as "he" being the one commissioning the show OR as "he" being the intended audience for the show.

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:03
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 15
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Reference comments


29 mins peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Donner la comédie

Reference information:
https://www.google.com/search?q=donner la comédie langue fra...

Emmanuella
Italy
Native speaker of: French

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Daryo: that would then be "making a fool of himself", esp given: Synonymes "se donner en spectacle"
12 hrs
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20 hrs
Reference: donner la comédie; se donner la comédie

Reference information:
DONNER LA COMEDIE

https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/donner_la_comédie#:~:text=Loc...

donner la comédie Prononciation ? (se conjugue → voir la conjugaison de donner)

(Figuré) Se faire remarquer par des manières extravagantes et ridicules.
Partout où il va, il donne la comédie.


SE DONNER LA COMEDIE DE QQCHS

https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/comédie

"B.− Au fig., fam. et souvent péj.
1. Au sing. (avec l'art. déf.), vieilli. Se donner la comédie de qqc. Se livrer au jeu de quelque chose. Donnez-vous la comédie, quelque jour, de parler de vous-même à des gens de simple connaissance (Balzac, Le Lys dans la vallée,1836, p. 162).
a) Jouer la comédie. Simuler par une mise en scène des sentiments que l'on n'éprouve pas :
5. Il y a la comédie qu'on joue pour tromper les hommes. Celle-là ne m'intéresse pas. Il y a celle qu'on joue par une sorte d'automatisme, parce que l'habitude est prise − qu'il s'agisse des passions ou de simple politesse, celle-là est plus grave, c'est le jeu du monde, autant dire du démon. Je ne puis l'accepter. Green, Journal,1950-54, p. 170.
− [Constructions]
♦ Absol. Elle sentait tout à fait qu'il lui jouait la comédie, qu'il n'y avait pas en lui la moindre sincérité (Daniel-Rops, Mort, où est ta victoire?1934, p. 459).
♦ [Suivi d'un compl. de nom] Elle joua la comédie du cœur brisé, et prit des airs dédaigneux, blasés (A. Daudet, Les Femmes d'artistes,1874, p. 184).[Suivi d'un inf.] Rare. Les choses se font toutes seules. Les hommes jouent la comédie de les accomplir (Valéry, Tel quel II,1943, p. 219).
b) [Chez les enfants et certains adultes à la conduite puérile] Caprice, enfantillage le plus souvent destiné à donner le change. S'il te plaît pas de comédie (Aymé, Les Quatre vérités,1954, p. 197)."

"Prononc. et Orth. : [kɔmedi]. Fait partie des mots en com- ne doublant pas l'm devant voyelle, qui sont une minorité. Ds Ac. 1694-1932. Étymol. et Hist. 1. a) 1370-72 « toute pièce de théâtre à quelque genre qu'elle appartienne » (Oresme, Ethique, IV, 25 ds DG); b) 1661 « la représentation de la pièce » (Molière, Facheux, I, 1); fig. 1666 donner la comédie « se donner en spectacle » (Molière, Misanthrope, I, 1); c) 1668 « lieu où se joue la pièce de théâtre » portier de comédie « celui qui se fait payer pour ouvrir la porte » (Racine, Plaideurs, I, 1); 2. a) 1552 « pièce de théâtre ayant pour but de divertir » (p. oppos. à tragédie) (Jodelle, Eugène, prol.); b) 1663 « ensemble d'actions qui provoquent le rire » (Molière, Critique de l'Ecole des Femmes, 6). Empr. au lat. comoedia (gr. κ ω μ ω δ ι ́ α) « pièce de théâtre, comédie (genre et pièce) ». Fréq. abs. littér. : 3 092. Fréq. rel. littér. : xixes. : a) 4 898, b) 5 112; xxes. : a) 3 371, b) 4 245. Bbg. Cuénot (C.). Z. rom. Philol. 1938, t. 58, pp. 610-614. − Gottsch. Redens. 1930, pp. 345-346. − Koch (P.). On Marivaux's expression se donner la comédie. Rom. R. 1965, t. 56, pp. 22-29. − Sain. Lang. par. 1920, p. 395. − Voltz (P.). La Comédie. Paris, 1964. − Winkler (E.). Zur Geschichte des Begriffs Comédie in Frankreich. Heidelberg, 1937.


RESUME

"Donner la comédie" = se faire remarquer par des manières extravagantes et ridicules.

"Se donner la comédie" = se donner en spectacle; se livrer au jeu de quelque chose

There is a difference between the two expressions. I suggest:
- "donner la comédie" describes the nature of the behaviour employed
- "se donner la comédie" describes the fact of employing such behaviour, adopting such an attidude

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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