Sep 30, 2021 16:11
2 yrs ago
23 viewers *
French term

avait été sensible aux Français en suscitant inconsciemment leur déconvenue

French to English Art/Literary Psychology From An Art History Book
Contexte:

La mine de Bernterode offrait aussi un asile sûr à plusieurs centaines de tableaux des musées de Potsdam. Comment pouvions- nous ne pas évoquer avec émotion tous les chefs-d’œuvre de notre XVIIIe siècle groupés autour de L’Enseigne de GERSAINT ?
Mais ce qui avait surtout été sensible aux Français en suscitant inconsciemment leur déconvenue, c’était la reconnaissance par la 7e armée Patton des vitraux de la cathédrale de Strasbourg, un des sanctuaires de notre patriotisme !

Merci Beaucoup,

Barbara
References
Where?

Discussion

Emmanuella Oct 2, 2021:
J'avoue que ce passage est mystérieux. L'auteur veut-il indiquer que les Américains et non les Français ont découvert les vitraux, d'où leur déconvenue en tant que patriotes ?
Daryo Oct 1, 2021:
Something is missing / makes no sense The quoted fragment on its own makes no sense.

These stained-glass windows from the Strasbourg Cathedral were found by the 7th Army in the salt mines near Heilbronn and sent back to Strasbourg. I can't see any reason for "la déconvenue des Français", nor why would that recovery "unintentionally caused disappointment / dismay / ..."?

The French being disappointed / dismayed because they got some of their national treasures back???

As for "subconsciously" - it fits even less: the key point of "l'inconscient" being that the person is not aware of it, how can you write about something you are not even aware of???

Nor I can't see this author suddenly indulging in a bit of psychoanalysis, i.e. the author becoming aware of what's going on in other people's subconscious mind.

This "déconvenue" ought to make sense in a larger context. What are one or two previous sentences?
Emmanuella Oct 1, 2021:
' Ce qui avait été surtout sensible aux Français' n'est pas correct grammaticalement.
D'où ma perplexité quant au sens de 'inconsciemment'...
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Sep 30, 2021:
"Subconscious" might very well be preferable, since the emotions the author describes did break out, from just below the level of awareness, into what was an almost raw kind of emotion.
SafeTex Sep 30, 2021:
unconsious v subconsious Hello all

Am I the only one who thinks that the French has to be translated here as "subconscious" rather than "unconscious"?
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Sep 30, 2021:
"one that caused them a great deal discomfiture/great deal of conflict at an unconscious level" (concept of unconscious conflicts in psychology)?
Andrew Bramhall Sep 30, 2021:
Sore point Yes, that's precisely the implied meaning!
Helene Tammik Sep 30, 2021:
I wonder if they mean "what had above all been a sore point with/for the French" or something like that?

Proposed translations

5 mins

But what the French were most sensitive about, and which ultimately led to their disappointment, ...

But what the French were most sensitive about, and which subconsciously led to their disappointment,was the recognition by the 7th Patton Army of the stained glass windows of Strasbourg Cathedral, one of the sanctuaries of our patriotism!

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Note added at 13 mins (2021-09-30 16:24:48 GMT)
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'sparked' ' elicited' or ' aroused' better than ' led to' here for ' susciter'.
Note from asker:
Thank You.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Helene Tammik : I understood that the disappointment had already happened, so not sure about "ultimately"? Also "unconscious" isn't the same as "subconscious". I think the "inconsciemment" means the result (disappointment) was not envisaged by whoever did the recognising
1 hr
thanks
neutral tradu-grace : I agree first part *But what the French were most sensitive about,* and I would propose another rendering for the second part *and which subconsciously arousing their disappointment* etc.
22 hrs
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1 hr

sore point that unconsciously dismayed them

I think I'd render it as something like: "But the biggest sore point for the French – one that had unconsciously (unwittingly?) chagrined/dismayed them – had been..."
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1 day 5 hrs
French term (edited): avait été surtout sensible aux Français en suscitant inconsciemment leur déconvenue

had been a particularly touchy matter for the French by subliminally arousing their displeasure

Mais: 'apart from the Bible, don't start a sentence with and or but'. So: Yet what the French had been particularly touchy about > alt: What had particularly grated on the French, though, by unconsciously stirring up their ire ...was the recce (recconoitre) by Patton's 7th Army..'

reconnaissance _ surely a military exploration or reconnoitre in this context.
Example sentence:

Even affect that is aroused subliminally can be transferred.

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Reference comments

1 day 2 hrs
Reference:

Where?

En août 1939, en prévision de la guerre imminente avec l’Allemagne, des murs de sacs de sable sont érigés devant les portails et autour du pilier des anges et de la chaire. Les vitraux sont déposés et mis à l’abri dans un premier temps en Dordogne, avant d’être récupérés par les Allemands après la capitulation française et envoyés dans les mines de sel de Heilbronn. D’autres mesures de protection sont prises à mesure que la situation militaire de l’Allemagne se détériore et que la probabilité d’une attaque aérienne augmente. Le bombardement attendu survient le 11 août 1944, lorsque l’aviation américaine vise le centre-ville de Strasbourg : les bombes qui touchent la cathédrale entraînent notamment la destruction d’une partie de la coupole et de la voûte du bas-côté nord. Trois mois plus tard, le 23 novembre 1944 les spahis du général Leclerc, qui viennent de libérer la ville, hissent le drapeau tricolore au sommet de la flèche, accomplissant ainsi le serment de Koufra58.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathédrale_Notre-Dame_de_Stras...


Heilbronn (German pronunciation: [haɪlˈbʁɔn]) is a city in northern Baden-Württemberg, Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heilbronn


That summer of 1945, Rorimer assigned Ettlinger to work in the salt mines — literally — at the city of Heilbronn, a rail center less than 50 miles northeast of Ettlinger’s childhood home at Karlsrühe. During the final weeks of the European war, Allied troops had discovered a series of mines in Germany and Austria where the Nazis had secreted untold riches — looted art as well as treasures from German museums — for safekeeping.

Thus, in early September 1945, began Ettlinger’s life underground. Four or five days a week, he descended an elevator some 700 feet into the Heilbronn mine or down the shaft at the Kochendorf facility a couple of miles to the north. At the bottom of the Heilbronn mine were a dozen or so chambers, carved out by salt mining, up to a mile long and about 60 feet wide and 40 feet high. At one end of the mine, the original function carried on: Rocks containing salt were extracted and transported to a large furnace for refining. Ettlinger performed most of his duties in a series of smaller storage chambers above the large caverns.

Ettlinger’s first priority at Heilbronn involved some stained-glass windows from the Strasbourg Cathedral. According to captured documents, authorities in this French city had removed the intricately designed windows — some of them dating from the 13th century — at the war’s outbreak and stored them for safekeeping in southern France. Later, the Nazis, who had always maintained that Strasbourg was actually part of Germany, shipped the treasured windows in 73 cases to Heilbronn. When General Eisenhower got wind of this, he ordered the return of the windows to the cathedral. They were to be the first stolen works of art restored to their rightful owners.

https://www.historynet.com/the-monuments-men-rescuing-art-pl...
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