Conor McAuley (asker) Nov 20, 2021:

In this context, I put Dr plus an explanatory note, which the client had no comment on.

In other contexts, I would leave the title out -- it is not necessary to stress that a notary/solicitor is qualified, it is a regulated profession almost everywhere.

AllegroTrans Nov 19, 2021:

In the United States You don't have the title of "His Royal Highness" but if a foreign monarch's title is written in a document you don't squidge it down to "Mr." or "Mrs."

Conor McAuley (asker) Nov 15, 2021:

Thanks Tina, and everybody else, for your kind input.

Oliver Simões Nov 14, 2021:

Drop the title or replace it with Mr/Ms I beg to disagree with some of the previous arguments. When translating, a good rule of thumb is to find a meaningful title in the target language (if there is one). For example, in Brazilian Portuguese lawyers normally go by "Dr" placed before their first names. If I were translating into US-EN, keeping the lawyer's title would make no sense to the target audience; in fact, they might be confused or at the very least find it weird to refer to a lawyer as a "doctor", in which case using "Esq." (esquire) would make a lot more sense. In the present case, the truth of the matter is that a notary public (at least in US-EN) doesn't use a title other than his/her job title ("notary public"), therefore dropping "Dr" and just using their name(s), preceded (or not) by "Mr" or "Ms" is more sensible. The fact that it's a legal document makes no difference whatsoever. There is no written rule that says a legal document must be translated verbatim (see Ref.). We don't translate words but meanings. I concur with Kiet: "Dr" has no meaning when referring to a notary or solicitor (again, in US-EN). The translation has to make sense to the target audience, not the source audience!

AllegroTrans Nov 14, 2021:

Keep the title verbatim This is (obviously) a title and this person, whatever his/her discipline, is entitled to it. You are translating a legal document, so you cannot simply jettison the title to fit the culture of whatever country your translation is for.

Tina Vonhof (X) Nov 14, 2021:

If this document is from a country other than US and UK, I would go verbatim, especially in a legal document. And, although it's not common, it is not impossible to have a Doctorate (in medicine or any other field) and be a notary/solicitor now. What we do in the US or the UK is not relevant here.

Kiet Bach Nov 14, 2021:

In the United Stated, we don't address solicitors (attorneys, lawyers in U.S.) as Dr. Neither do they address themselves that way, although they all have a Juris Doctor degree.

In other disciplines of studies, we do sometimes address people who have a doctorate degree as Dr. The first lady of the United States, Jill Biden, has a Doctor of Education degree. A White House webpage introduces her as Dr. Jill Biden.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/dr-jill-biden/

AllegroTrans Nov 14, 2021:

@ Paul Ryan They always had a full stop when I went to school and I think you will find that countless people still use them. The clear rule was that any abbreviation had a full stop, which is 100% logical and consistent. Dropping them comes from the "dumbing down" brigade who want to make us all semi-illiterate.

Paul Ryan Nov 14, 2021:

In UK English contractions generally do not have a full stop: Mr Dr Sr (Sister) whereas abbreviations properly called do: doc., sec., op. (See eg new Oxford Style Manual, page 174 and following).

AllegroTrans Nov 14, 2021:

Well I did agree with Phil's "leave it out" answer to that question 11 years ago. However, despite the Guardian style guide, there are countless inviduals in the UK for example who use the title "Dr." but who are not physicians.
So I think "the jury is out" (some of them could be rather shot after 11 years).

Joan Berglund Nov 14, 2021:

J.D.? I think in the past, I may have used [name], J.D, mostly because I didn't feel comfortable leaving it out completely and did think Dr. was odd. So I mention it as a possibility.

Mark Robertson Nov 14, 2021:

@Conor Drop it. The only doctors in EN are physicians and people with doctorates, PhD, DPhil, DDiv, DSc, etc. Strangely when medical doctors become consultants they revert to Mr (at least in the UK and Ireland).

Conor McAuley (asker) Nov 14, 2021:

Had the question before That's hilarious, Phil, same line of argument, same source!

I'm tending to your opinion, but this is on an official form. Will ponder.

Conor McAuley (asker) Nov 14, 2021:

Thanks for your great advice, Phil. Please do change to EN>EN.

I've got over a day to think about it.

philgoddard Nov 14, 2021:

I realise we've had this before, and my opinion prevailed. It was eleven years ago, so I can be excused for forgetting!
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german-to-english/law-general/4161...

philgoddard Nov 14, 2021:

"Dr" means you have a doctorate, so "degree holder" would be wrong. It's ultimately up to you - you may decide to respect what the person wants to call themselves, even if you disagree with it.
I can change this to English-English if you want, though I suspect the answers would come down equally on both sides of the fence.

Conor McAuley (asker) Nov 14, 2021:

(Btw, no option to change question to EN>EN, just to reverse the pair or to "Squash", which I assume means delete.)

Conor McAuley (asker) Nov 14, 2021:

Thanks very much Phil! You're right with all your points, and I'd forgotten you could post EN>EN.

What would you think of a note like this:

"Dr (degree-holder)..."?

philgoddard Nov 14, 2021:

The Guardian style guide says you shouldn't call someone doctor unless they're a physician, which I agree with.
This is more of an English-English question.