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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

Cacicazgo

English translation:

caciquism

Added to glossary by kristinld
Mar 8, 2008 23:29
16 yrs ago
11 viewers *
Spanish term

Cacicazgo

Spanish to English Social Sciences Government / Politics Mexican Politics
"[...]existe una debilidad en su estructura interna que ha permitido que sus liderazgos sean remplazados por modelos de cacicazgo[...]"

El término se ha utilizado bastante al hablar de los partidos políticos y sus líderes en México. Quisiera que me ayudaran a encontrar una forma sucinta de traducir esta idea. De antemano, ¡muchas gracias!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 caciquism
5 +3 Despotism
5 Head Chief, Chief
5 fiefdom
5 party-boss system
4 feudalism/feudalists/ feudality / adopted feudal patterns or models
4 -1 cacicazgo

Discussion

Sandra Rodriguez Mar 9, 2008:
Be assured I’ve intended no quarrel. I feel priviledged to participate in this forum and hold every one of you in the highest esteem.
Sandra Rodriguez Mar 9, 2008:
My intervention is from an anthropological and professional viewpoint, and I thought you would receive it exactly that way. Perhaps I’ve been exposed to more debates on post-colonial use of language, such as the use of "black" to mean misfortune. (more)
Sandra Rodriguez Mar 9, 2008:
That’s true Toni, particularly in Puerto Rico where we have a creole heritage with a wonderful mix of races and cultures --- no “pure” white, no “pure” black, but a heavy load of indigenous genes as recent research confirms! (Continues)
Toni Castano Mar 9, 2008:
Also agree with you, Óscar. As so many times in life, things are neither black nor white. This seems to be the case too!
Sandra Rodriguez Mar 9, 2008:
Patricia, of course caciques and cacicas (the real, indigenous chieftains) continue to be called that way, albeit they may use the corresponding terms in their own languages (Mallku among Aymaras; Lonko, among Mapuches; Apus, among Quechuas). What I object is the continued use associated with contemporary cronyism and other infamous power-plays.
Patricia Rosas Mar 9, 2008:
¡muy bien dicho, Oscar!
Óscar Delgado Gosálvez Mar 9, 2008:
Any name of authority can be used derogatorily, because no one likes to be commanded and it's impossible to have fair rulers only. Despot insults my greek ancestors, as well as tyrant and autocrat. Dictator debases my latin origin, and Cacique my indian.
Patricia Rosas Mar 9, 2008:
The DRAE defines the term: Dominación o influencia del cacique de un pueblo o comarca.
Patricia Rosas Mar 9, 2008:
I just finished editing a book that talk about the INDIGENOUS caciques in Zapotec-Mixtec-Triqui cultures (including CACICAS...women indigenous leaders), so despite the neg. connotations of the term in English, I don't understand the objection.
Toni Castano Mar 9, 2008:
Thanks, Sandra, for your contribution. I appreciate it.
Sandra Rodriguez Mar 9, 2008:
To Toni and anybody else interested in the subject: please read the note I just added below. Not enough space here to explain.
Toni Castano Mar 9, 2008:
Not by chance I finally opted for “despotism” instead of “caciquism” anticipating the problem that might arise and has finally arisen. Hope you understand…
Toni Castano Mar 9, 2008:
But this is not the appropriate context to deal with this issue or to argue, I believe. My mere intention was to help the asker by providing a possible translation term.
Toni Castano Mar 9, 2008:
As a Spaniard and holder of a degree in Political Science and History I am very much aware of the evil caused by Spanish conquistadores in the Indies.
Toni Castano Mar 9, 2008:
To Sandra Rodríguez. Nothing was further from my thoughts than insulting your respectable ancestors and people when I suggested my translation proposal.

Proposed translations

+4
55 mins
Selected

caciquism

Merriam Webster:
2 : a local political boss in Spain and Latin America
–ca·ciqu·ism \-'sē-ˌki-zəm\ noun


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Note added at 56 mins (2008-03-09 00:26:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

caciquism/ also bossism
Encyclopedia Britannica:
caciquism/bossism
Spanish: Caciquismo ("bossism"), in Latin-American and Spanish politics, the rule of local chiefs or bosses (caciques). As a class, these leaders have often played a key role in their countries' political structure
Peer comment(s):
agree Janine Libbey
12 mins
Gracias, ¡viva madrid!
agree Mónica Ameztoy de Andrada
1 hr
Gracias, Mónica.
disagree Sandra Rodriguez : I also object caciquism for it derives from the assault on indigenous culture by Spanish imperialism, its continued use only adding insult to injury. I know you don't mean it that way Oscar, but that will be the effect of the unavoidable association.
2 hrs
I don't think this question is appropriate as a subject to agree or disagree with the individual translators, Sandra. I also suggested bossism as an alternative. If you have any problem with the term, I urge you to notify the asker.
agree Patricia Rosas : it's in Merriam-Webster's and it is widely used (even in Spanish) to mean "bossism" -- given the asker's negative context, I don't see any thing wrong with this.
4 hrs
Thanks, Patricia.
agree Eng2Span : I understand Sandra's point, as a Christian who on occasion has to interpret the swear words of defendants I have accepted that the role of the translator/interpreter is to render what is said _by the source_ (not me) without up/downgrading it in any way.
5 hrs
Thanks a lot, Eng2span, I agree.
agree Egmont
10 hrs
Thanks, AVRM.
agree jules_sieg : Some terms really can't be translated literally. Cacique is a position with a great deal of indigenous pre-Conquest tradition.. It wasn't imposed by the Spanish.
17 hrs
Thanks, jules.
disagree Beatriz Galiano (X) : 1) I agree with Sandra and 2)in terms of international relations it is better to use terms that can be easily understood.
20 hrs
mmm mmm.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks very much! I opted for "bossism" in the text I translated. I find it difficult to have the task of choosing an answer in this case..."
+3
10 mins

Despotism

"Cacicazgo" or the more common term "caciquismo" (in Spain!) doesn´t apply to a person, but to a system as a whole in which the exercise of power is in the hand of one or a small group of petty tyrants/local bosses.
Note from asker:
I appreciate your answer and arguments!
Peer comment(s):
agree Rachel Fell : "Caciquismo" http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0014-1828(196504)4:2<190:AM... http://www.brookings.edu/press/Books/2005/caciquismointwenti...
11 mins
Many thanks Rachel
agree Beatriz Galiano (X) : El cacique es el único jefe de la tribu.
42 mins
agree Ivette Diaz : You are not evil; You are majo :)
15 hrs
:-)
Something went wrong...
-1
41 mins

cacicazgo

Yo usaría la palabra sin traducir
Peer comment(s):
disagree Sandra Rodriguez : Por respeto a nuestros pueblos originarios, objeto del uso del término en un contexto opuesto a sus valores.
2 hrs
It looks like I am always asleep when things get hot here. No second or third intention when I suggested the use of cacicazgo. No intend to offend anyone. I also have pre-hispanic blood or genes in me, but the relity of life is that cacicazgo exists.
Something went wrong...
15 hrs

feudalism/feudalists/ feudality / adopted feudal patterns or models

Suerte
Something went wrong...
1 min

Head Chief, Chief

cacique (chief)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2008-03-09 15:01:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Collins Spanish Unabridged Dictionary page 158 says:
cacique chief,headman; (Pol) local party boss; (fig) petty tyrant, despot

Caciquil ADJ despotic, tyrannical

Caciquismo sm (Pol) (system of) dominance by the local party boss; (fig) petty tyranny, despotism

Wikipedia: This term is found in contexts such as "la princesa de Cofachiqui, señora de un cacigazgo indígena"[2] or, for example: "In November of 1493, the island of Boriquén had approximately 20 cacigazgos."[3] According to Spanish chronicles, the cacique was at the apex of a feudal structure. Bartolomé de las Casas refers to these cacigazgos as kingdoms

cacicazgo. Real Academia Espanola http://www.rae.es/



1. m. Dignidad de cacique.

2. m. Territorio que posee el cacique.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2008-03-09 18:17:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Soy la cacique de mi bohio.
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

fiefdom

My ancestors being the noble Taino of the Antilles, it pains me to see the terms cacique and cacicazgo degraded to name the “petty tyrants/local bosses” that Toni describes.

Taíno caciques were actually priests, since theirs was a theocracy and a man had to be initiated in the harsh trials of Taino religion before he could rule. Also, the fault that was unthinkable for anyone who aspired to be considered a Taino was robbery, which is the main objective of these modern cronies.

For this reason I looked for a word that more aptly describes the domain of such thugs as the sentence refers to --- but, of course, you can always use ‘gangland’ or ‘mafia turf’.


fiefdom (Derogatory usage)
Fiefdomism can refer to behavior of bureaucrats or small time politicians when information or programs are isolated and jealously guarded from other bureaucrats or small time politicians in order to preserve their power at the expense of making government worse.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 horas (2008-03-09 13:03:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Toni: I am well aware you intended no offense. Most people using that term are not intending to offend, are only going by current accepted usage. The present trend that recognizes the colonialist mind-set imbedded in language is still an anthropological novelty only empowered by the indigenous movement surging throughout the Americas.

True, ‘indigenismo’ has flourished before in literary and academic circles, but this surge stems from the originary peoples themselves, boosted by the unprecedented advent to power of an Aymara president in the Andean region. In another forum, centered on paleo-history,

I’ve had a similar exchange of ideas regarding the word Anasazi, frequently used to refer to the Archaic peoples in the Four Corners region in the USA. The term was coined by the Navajo to refer to their “enemies of yesteryear” or “enemies of our Elders”. Of course the Hopi people and the Pueblo peoples repudiate the term, no matter how glossed over with alluring shades of mystery and mysticism by well-meaning writers.

All of the above indicates that those of us who study languages and work with them must incorporate the new awareness and apply it when and where it seems relevant. It is in that spirit that I have intervened now, trying to contribute a bit of insight into a subject of true cultural import.

All of you who read all the way down to here, Thank you!









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Note added at 21 horas (2008-03-09 21:23:39 GMT)
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CHIEFDOM...
The word came as an afterthought. Sometimes we have the answer right in front of our nose...but can't see it, right?
Something went wrong...
1 day 13 hrs

party-boss system

The political environment is governed now by party-boss systems
Something went wrong...
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