Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
knowingly permit
French translation:
permettre en toute connaissance de cause
Added to glossary by
Tony M
Sep 19, 2013 22:43
10 yrs ago
English term
United Kingdom
Knowingly permit
English to French
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Knowingly permit
This is a legal term.
An organization might be said to have knowingly permitted an event to occur even if they were not controlling it.
This is a legal term.
An organization might be said to have knowingly permitted an event to occur even if they were not controlling it.
Proposed translations
(French)
Change log
Oct 3, 2013 06:08: Tony M Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+3
1 day 15 hrs
Selected
permettre en toute connaissance de cause
As an amalgam of various suggestions already made (and all credit to their posters!).
'en toute connaissance de cause' certainly seems to get a greater number of Google hits, and this time from France itself; it looks as though different terms may be favoured in FR and CA.
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Note added at 1 day18 hrs (2013-09-21 17:01:06 GMT)
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Do note that the source text definition given in this question context is slightly at odds with the House of Lords ruling kindly quoted by Daryo, where the element of 'having the power to prevent' is mentioned, whereas here, the text mentions 'even if they were not controlling it'; it's a debatable point, but that could be construed as meaning that they did not have the power to prevent it.
Here is that ref. again: (thanks Daryo!)
9.10 The meaning of the term "knowingly permit" was considered during the debate on Lords' Consideration of Commons' Amendments to the then Environment Bill on 11 July 1995. The then Minister for the Environment, Earl Ferrers, stated on behalf of the Government that: "The test of "knowingly permitting" would require both knowledge that the substances in question were in, on or under the land and the possession of the power to prevent such a substance being there." ( House of Lords Hansard, 11 July 1995, col. 1497)
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/06/05131212/17
'en toute connaissance de cause' certainly seems to get a greater number of Google hits, and this time from France itself; it looks as though different terms may be favoured in FR and CA.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day18 hrs (2013-09-21 17:01:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Do note that the source text definition given in this question context is slightly at odds with the House of Lords ruling kindly quoted by Daryo, where the element of 'having the power to prevent' is mentioned, whereas here, the text mentions 'even if they were not controlling it'; it's a debatable point, but that could be construed as meaning that they did not have the power to prevent it.
Here is that ref. again: (thanks Daryo!)
9.10 The meaning of the term "knowingly permit" was considered during the debate on Lords' Consideration of Commons' Amendments to the then Environment Bill on 11 July 1995. The then Minister for the Environment, Earl Ferrers, stated on behalf of the Government that: "The test of "knowingly permitting" would require both knowledge that the substances in question were in, on or under the land and the possession of the power to prevent such a substance being there." ( House of Lords Hansard, 11 July 1995, col. 1497)
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/06/05131212/17
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
wolfheart
: yes - they all answered AFTER me ;-)
14 mins
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Thanks, Wolfheart! I just thought it was important that the headword answer should be correctly formulated. In fact, your were only one of 4 people who suggested 'en toute connaissance de cause'.
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: Yes, and I see that we both agree that "permettre" is much more "passive" than autoriser, which is the sense of the text
1 hr
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Thanks, C! Quite.
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| agree |
Peter LEGUIE
: Yes Tony, considering what has already been said on the subject (including my own comments).
2 days 20 hrs
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Thanks, Peter!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+2
1 hr
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
680
sciemment permettre
not knowingly permit the interest of the employer to conflict with his or her duties or powers in respect of the pension fund.
fasken.com
ne permet pas sciemment que son intérêt entre en conflit avec ses attributions à l'égard du régime de retraite.
fasken.com
never make or knowingly permit the making of false or misleading entries in CIBC's books and records
cibc-global.hk
ne doivent jamais faire ni sciemment permettre de faire d'entrées fausses ou trompeuses dans les livres et dossiers de la CIBC
cibc-global.hk
fasken.com
ne permet pas sciemment que son intérêt entre en conflit avec ses attributions à l'égard du régime de retraite.
fasken.com
never make or knowingly permit the making of false or misleading entries in CIBC's books and records
cibc-global.hk
ne doivent jamais faire ni sciemment permettre de faire d'entrées fausses ou trompeuses dans les livres et dossiers de la CIBC
cibc-global.hk
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: Yes, and plenty of instances from CA, e.g. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2011-318/... (toggle between FR and EN) / Just with the caveat that the vast majority of Ghits do seem to be Canadian.
5 hrs
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thanks TM
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| agree |
Germaine
: le mot juste pour "knowingly"; quant à "permit", on a plutôt le sens de "laisser faire"
13 hrs
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thanks G
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6 hrs
English term (edited):
to have knowingly permitted
ayant permis, en connaissance de cause
Le bon choix est 'permettre'/'connaissance de cause' :)
'...peut être considérée comme ayant permis, en connaissance de cause, l'occurrence d'un événement...'
'...peut être considérée comme ayant permis, en connaissance de cause, l'occurrence d'un événement...'
+3
9 mins
autoriser en toute connaissance de cause
***
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Note added at 12 hrs (2013-09-20 11:26:25 GMT)
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Tony is righ il vaut mieux dire: laisser faire en toute connaissance de cause
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Note added at 12 hrs (2013-09-20 11:26:25 GMT)
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Tony is righ il vaut mieux dire: laisser faire en toute connaissance de cause
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
mchd
5 hrs
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| neutral |
Tony M
: Wrong meaning of 'permit' here: it means to passively 'not prevent from happening', rather than to actively authorize.
6 hrs
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| agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
8 hrs
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| neutral |
writeaway
: permit isn't the same as authorise, in either language. /yes but don't really like agreeing with readjusted answers. I do prefer en toute connaissance de cause. sounds more natural, less like a straight-from-the dictionary translation.
15 hrs
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this is why I put a note to my answer! did you read it?
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| agree |
Peter LEGUIE
: Ou bien "permettre" en tenant compte des commentaires pertinents faits.
1 day 10 hrs
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| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: il ne s'agit pas de "donner une autorisation" ici, je crois que le sens est beaucoup plus passif que cela
2 days 19 hrs
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did you read the note I added: Tony is righ il vaut mieux dire: laisser faire en toute connaissance de cause
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13 hrs
s'abstenir d'agir en toute connaissance de cause
"to permit" = "s'abstenir d'agir" dans ce cas précis - ne rien faire pour prévenir la pollution, tout en ayant la possibilité / le pouvoir de le faire.
"permettre/permission" est ambigu - peut être compris comme étant une action (permission donnée de façon explicite - une autorisation), ou simplement un manque d'action (laisser faire les pollueurs)
9.10 The meaning of the term "knowingly permit" was considered during the debate on Lords' Consideration of Commons' Amendments to the then Environment Bill on 11 July 1995. The then Minister for the Environment, Earl Ferrers, stated on behalf of the Government that: "The test of "knowingly permitting" would require both knowledge that the substances in question were in, on or under the land and the possession of the power to prevent such a substance being there." ( House of Lords Hansard, 11 July 1995, col. 1497)
[http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/06/05131212/17]
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Note added at 13 hrs (2013-09-20 12:43:02 GMT)
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aussi:
s'abstenir d'agir délibérément
"permettre/permission" est ambigu - peut être compris comme étant une action (permission donnée de façon explicite - une autorisation), ou simplement un manque d'action (laisser faire les pollueurs)
9.10 The meaning of the term "knowingly permit" was considered during the debate on Lords' Consideration of Commons' Amendments to the then Environment Bill on 11 July 1995. The then Minister for the Environment, Earl Ferrers, stated on behalf of the Government that: "The test of "knowingly permitting" would require both knowledge that the substances in question were in, on or under the land and the possession of the power to prevent such a substance being there." ( House of Lords Hansard, 11 July 1995, col. 1497)
[http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/06/05131212/17]
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Note added at 13 hrs (2013-09-20 12:43:02 GMT)
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aussi:
s'abstenir d'agir délibérément
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: that refrain from taking action. where is that in the French? how would it fit in with the context??
2 hrs
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look at the definition given in the ref; that looks very much to me like "s'abstenir d'agir" i.e. do nothing when you had the real possibility to do something // just another way of saying "laisser faire les pollueurs"
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| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: you have introduced a negative, it isn't in the ST
2 days 6 hrs
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the meaning is there // there is a nuance between "s'abstenir d'agir" passive approval as in the ST and "permettre" that could also be active/explicit approval
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Discussion
Let us now hope that the asker has found a suitable reply !
Best, Peter LEGUIE.
There is a LOT of crossover between FR an EN with the verb 'permettre' when it is used in non-formal instances, and I find myself constantly using different solutions, inclluding sometimes 'to make possible', for example.
'the crank handle makes it possible to start the car even with a flat battery'
'the crank handle lets you start the car even with a flat battery'
'the crank handle allows you to start the car even with a flat battery'
'the crank handle enables the car to be started even with a flat battery'
One of the problems is that 'permettre' is often used in FR with a noun object, which is not also possible in EN, hence requiring workarounds, like 'lets you' or 'allows you to'; when these cannot be used, 'makes it possible' is sometimes about the only choice left.
But IMHO this kind of usage is different from the formal context here, where it means 'let sth happen / allow sth to happen' i.e. 'fail to prevent it'.
S'agissant de l'aspect "matériel" évoqué par Cyril (auquel je souscris), comment traduirait-on "permettre à la voiture de démarrer"? Je dirais "allow the car to start up" mais pencheriez-vous pour "enable"? Moi non.
Je pense que l'on pourrait également dire que la "permission" peut sous-entendre dans certains cas un fait occasionnel et limité dans le temps (ceux qui ont fait leur service militaire me comprendront...) ou bien "la permission de minuit" pour un adolescent.