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fulano de tal, sutano de tal y mengano del cual

English translation: Defendants X, Y and Z

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:fulano de tal, sutano de tal y mengano del cual
English translation:Defendants X, Y and Z
Entered by: Ryan Kelly

14:46 May 12, 2021
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
Spanish term or phrase: fulano de tal, sutano de tal y mengano del cual
Greetings,

So I would like to know how to best phrase this; would it simply by "Does" or is there a more elaborate/specific way of wording this since it isn't just "un fulano de tal" but rather three different ones.

This is taken from the list of defendants in a complaint from a Puerto Rican civil case.
Ryan Kelly
United States
Local time: 05:01
Defendants X, Y and Z
Explanation:
As the people cited a defendant in a court case, X, Y and Z is sometimes used.
"Mister X or Mr. X is commonly used as a pseudonym for someone whose name is secret or unknown."


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 38 mins (2021-05-12 15:25:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, that first sentence should read "As the people cited ARE DEFENDANTS in a courts case..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2021-05-12 15:28:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It reminds me of when I was a teenager, a little old flasher used to follow my friends and I after school, and we called him Mr X, as that was how the newspapers described the defendants in sex cases.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wealthy-businessman-mr-x-...
"Wealthy businessman Mr X who paid off sex accusers wins secrecy order."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2021-05-12 17:08:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

NB: And Ms. X/Y/Z if the defendant is female...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2021-05-12 17:08:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Ms X denied she had bullied Mrs T..."
Selected response from:

neilmac
Spain
Local time: 11:01
Grading comment
Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5Defendants X, Y and Z
neilmac
2 +2so and so, so and so, and so and so
Marcelo Viera
4John Doe I, John Doe II, and John Doe III
Robert Forstag
3John Doe, Richard Roe, Johnny Doe
Ruth Rubina


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
so and so, so and so, and so and so


Explanation:
x, y, and z

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2021-05-12 14:59:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://books.google.com.uy/books?id=sZe2AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1232&...

Marcelo Viera
Uruguay
Local time: 06:01
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: X, Y and Z would work, but you can't have three people all called "so and so".
2 mins
  -> Thank you
agree  neilmac: I hadn't seen your explanation when I posted my suggestion "Defendants X, Y and Z"...
28 mins
  -> Thank you
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
John Doe, Richard Roe, Johnny Doe


Explanation:

More options:
John Doe, Richard Roe, Robert Roe, Mark Moe, Larry Loe, James Doe

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2021-05-12 14:59:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The name ‘John Doe’ for males, ‘Jane Doe’ for females, or the non-genderspecific ‘Doe’ are used as placeholder names for a party whose true identity is unknown or must be withheld in a legal action, case, or discussion. The names are also used to refer to a corpse or hospital patient whose identity is unknown. This practice is widely used in the United States and Canada, and rarely used in other English-speaking countries including the United Kingdom, from where the use of ‘John Doe’ in legal context originates. Instead the name ‘Joe Bloggs’ is used in the UK, as well as in Australia and New Zealand.


    https://www.registryofpseudonyms.com/an_anonymous_or_unknown_person.html
Ruth Rubina
United States
Local time: 05:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in HebrewHebrew, Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: Might the jury (or even the judge) not confuse John with Johnny, and vice versa?
6 hrs
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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
John Doe I, John Doe II, and John Doe III


Explanation:
Many hits for such usage on the web, at least in the US (with a document from Puerto Rico, I am assuming a target of US English rather than, say, UK or Indian English).

See, for example:

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-6th-circuit/1756607.html
https://apnews.com/article/a647afdcc3134cb7a2f234446f16ad5f
https://law.justia.com/cases/alaska/supreme-court/2018/s-158...

Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 05:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 797

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: This strongly suggests they are father, son and grandson - hardly feasible anonymisation
5 hrs
  -> I do not think so. This is conventional usage in at least some US Courts, and no attorney or judge would assume anything other than that three anonymous defendants have been labelled for purposes of identification. See the references I have provided.
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37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
Defendants X, Y and Z


Explanation:
As the people cited a defendant in a court case, X, Y and Z is sometimes used.
"Mister X or Mr. X is commonly used as a pseudonym for someone whose name is secret or unknown."


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 38 mins (2021-05-12 15:25:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, that first sentence should read "As the people cited ARE DEFENDANTS in a courts case..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2021-05-12 15:28:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It reminds me of when I was a teenager, a little old flasher used to follow my friends and I after school, and we called him Mr X, as that was how the newspapers described the defendants in sex cases.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wealthy-businessman-mr-x-...
"Wealthy businessman Mr X who paid off sex accusers wins secrecy order."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2021-05-12 17:08:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

NB: And Ms. X/Y/Z if the defendant is female...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2021-05-12 17:08:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Ms X denied she had bullied Mrs T..."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_X
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 11:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 662
Grading comment
Thank you!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Paulina Sobelman
1 hr
agree  Anthony Clare-Flagg: Sounds good to me.
5 hrs
agree  AllegroTrans: This is the most likely scenario for the fomalities of a court, but it would be useful to know why they are nameless; might have a bearing on the best solution
5 hrs
agree  Marcelo Viera
1 day 2 hrs
agree  Christian [email protected]: A certain ex-president was also "individual 1"...
1 day 6 hrs
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