Giles Watson Dec 11, 2012:

I agree that adding customer-perceived value is the first priority. What else do people pay us for? I prefer to do so by translating what is there first and then informing the customer if there are any suggestions to be made.

Most of the time, though, it's not the notion content of the text that is the biggest problem. Source-language style expectations can conflict quite severely with target-language purpose. In F&W marketing texts, for example, Italian copywriters can get terribly flowery where the English-language reader might appreciate more facts and figures. Since you can't make up the figures, all you can do is produce a readable translation and perhaps flag up the issue.

James (Jim) Davis Dec 11, 2012:

Thanks Oliver and Giles too. I feel, this type of discussion is extremely useful, to measure your own approach against those of others. Does anybody else have any input?

Oliver Lawrence Dec 11, 2012:

I agree with Jim's view of promotional translation and adding value. Well put.

James (Jim) Davis Dec 11, 2012:

@Lara not to worry :)

Lara Barnett (asker) Dec 11, 2012:

@ Jim & Giles I think both terms and supporting arguments are extremely relevant, and your experiences and ideas are equally interesting to hear about. In the meantime, I am sorry I will only be able to choose one term.

James (Jim) Davis Dec 11, 2012:

If the original author is good Then it can be challenging. If the original author is bad, then it is generally easy to improve it. Now you are painting things black and white, in terms of "adding" or "removing" notions. When I am in a financial report, every "notion" is weighed and calibrated for a readable report which "makes no compromises on accuracy, whatsoever". The total focus is on accuracy, followed by readability, to disclose facts, whtih nothing added, nothing removed. But as soon as you get into advertising and sales or image documents, the focus is entirely different, you play up some aspects and play down others. You don't remove and add, but you enhance and develop notions and gloss over others. You focus on sales and reputation, while accuracy comes second (and that is no cop out, it is taking on more responsibility).
The translator who sells most will get more work and can charge higher prices. I remember, years ago, on a brochure telling a client that I had "stretched" a "notion" in a translation (I think the English was job function which translated about five words in the source). He listened and then change the original in line with mine. I gave value added services which he valued.

Giles Watson Dec 11, 2012:

@Jim Change the content if it's OK with the customer but in most cases it's a bit of a cop-out.

If a text works in the original, a good translator ought to be able to mirror the effect in the target language without adding or removing notions. After all, the main difference between an experienced translator and a novice is that the old lag tends to have more reformulation options at his or her disposal.

James (Jim) Davis Dec 11, 2012:

@Giles This is proz.com not academia.com. When I receive a translation to do, the first question I ask myself and/or the client, is what is it for? I've done so much company stuff, I just look and do. If it is sales, then it has to sell, I don't bother wasting a client's time asking if he thinks I should make it sound better and work better, he is just going to say yes. In Laura's case I would want to know about which end of the market and details of the products, if not evident in the text. If it is company image, the Italian author has done his/her best to portray the company as the best in its sector, I automatically do the same with the translation. This is not copywriting, because the product is a translation not copy. I'll admit it is close to it.

Giles Watson Dec 11, 2012:

@Jim I take your point about translating comedy, an area in which I have a fair bit of experience ;-)

However, Proz is a translation portal and it is reasonable to assume that, unless Lara says otherwise, she is looking for a translation - which is a perfectly feasible proposition - rather than a piece of copywriting.

Of course, if it's OK with Lara, we could have a bit of fun brainstorming ;-)

James (Jim) Davis Dec 11, 2012:

@Giles If the function was solely to inform, then I would agree with you. However, this is adverising. So the aim is not to academically maintain the weight of the notions in the original text without adding or removing meaining, the aim is to increase sales, two aims which may conflict. This is not a license to wildly deviate recklessly from the original, it is a license to wildly deviate where appropriate in an extremely careful and responsible manner. Basically if the translation does the same function as the original but better, then your client is well served. Of course if the function is to inform accurately (as in journalism), then this translation would be totally and simply wrong. Translations must do what they are intended to do. Take comedy: if "maintaining the relative weight of the notions in the original text without adding or removing meaning" doesn't get a laugh, then the translation failed, again assuming the purpose of the translation was comedy.

Giles Watson Dec 11, 2012:

@Jim It's not a question of "word for word" translation: the aim is to maintain the relative weight of the notions in the original text without adding or removing meaning.

My suggestion for "sconosciute" ("off the radar" but there will be others, I'm sure) does the job without any need for adding what are in effect glosses on the original text.

James (Jim) Davis Dec 11, 2012:

@Giles Of course it is, but selling the client's products takes precedence over accuracy, all else remaining equal. Standard practice in advertising has little regard to truth and accuracy. Beer doesn't do you good, neither does any beer refresh parts others...
The "esclusivi" means they need something unique and good, which requires talent. "sconosciute" means the talent must be new in the sense of new to the market, previously unknown. If you focus on the the whole message rather than the individual terms and never forget the function of the message, you don't worry about word-for-word correlations. In fact in many cases they will be difficult to find ;-)

Giles Watson Dec 11, 2012:

@Jim Fair enough but "unique new talent" is rather an over-translation of "sconosciute", which makes no reference to uniqueness, novelty or indeed talent ;-)

James (Jim) Davis Dec 11, 2012:

@Giles I believe I've already pointed that out:
'I think the idea they are trying to convey is in the words "ancora sconosciute"'

Giles Watson Dec 11, 2012:

Daniela is on the right track The problem here is focus.

"Realtà aziendali" is a very low-focus way of referring to businesses/suppliers whereas "sconosciute" is in a prominent position at the end of the phrase.

Lara Barnett (asker) Dec 10, 2012:

@ Jim They seem to be talking about suppliers I think, and how they go great lengths to source the best top quality products for the customer.

James (Jim) Davis Dec 10, 2012:

A realtà aziendale is usually a euphemism for a company. Are these suppliers they are discovering? Or are they talking about unique new facets of their own company they continue to discover? Bit exagerated.