| Stron w wątku: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | KudoZ is not a shadow of what it used to be. Autor wątku: Teresa Duran-Sanchez
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oversetterhu (X)
Norwegia
Local time: 00:47
angielski > norweski
+ ...
| Excuse my english | Sep 4, 2008 |
I believe there are still a lot of good Prozs out there, but a huge number of those who answer the KudoZ questions seems to me, excuse my French, a bit lazy in their explanations.
Calling people who try to help you lazy is in my dictionary damn rude !
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mariell myran wrote:
Calling people who try to help you lazy is in my dictionary damn rude !
Hi Mariell, I´m not sure whether you´re joking here
In my dictionary, "being lazy in their explanations" doesn´t mean "being lazy" altogether. I myself feel quite lazy myself to explain what I said, actually It´s now quite late even for the Canary Islands.
Good night!
| | | | Jack Doughty 
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 23:47
rosyjski > angielski
+ ...
In Memoriam | Agree with Teresa | Sep 4, 2008 |
I've been a member since 2000, and I agree that there has been a deterioration in Kudoz since then. There have been several forum threads on the subject, and there seem to be two main points of view: one is that more regulation is necessary, of both askers and answerers, but more particularly of answerers, to try to improve the situation. The other is that regulation imposed from above should be reduced to restore the more informal atmosphere that once prevailed, and that individual responses ... See more I've been a member since 2000, and I agree that there has been a deterioration in Kudoz since then. There have been several forum threads on the subject, and there seem to be two main points of view: one is that more regulation is necessary, of both askers and answerers, but more particularly of answerers, to try to improve the situation. The other is that regulation imposed from above should be reduced to restore the more informal atmosphere that once prevailed, and that individual responses to the situation are more likely to improve it. I favor the second view, but there is something to be said on both sides of the argument and I respect those with whom I disagree on the subject.
I don't wish to re-open the arguments from any of the preceding discussions here, but I am glad Teresa opened another thread to draw attention to this one, which I missed the first time round, and gave me, as another old-timer, the opportunity to agree with her. ▲ Collapse
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None of your staff, nor you, have still given a good reason why you took out my post out of the Recent post list
I suggest:
1. You mention one of your existings FAQS which could explain why you took my post away from the main page (you will find none, otherwise you would have mentioned it already)
2. You create a new FAQ with a explicit mention of your right to censor any post just because you feel like it. It´s your site, after all.
I really appreci... See more None of your staff, nor you, have still given a good reason why you took out my post out of the Recent post list
I suggest:
1. You mention one of your existings FAQS which could explain why you took my post away from the main page (you will find none, otherwise you would have mentioned it already)
2. You create a new FAQ with a explicit mention of your right to censor any post just because you feel like it. It´s your site, after all.
I really appreciate this site. I traslated part of this site for free and I have helped many translators to become better professionals.
You are not transparent. Another disappointment to add to the black list. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Henry, since you're around... | Sep 4, 2008 |
... would you care to reply to my last post on the "Good citizenship" thread?
Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote: Textklick wrote:
That aspect has changed a lot and I am sad that quite a few peers don't really bother to contribute any more. They were good.
Is it because the quality has become diluted by having so many more members in total (clearly a statistical likelihood), or is it 'unbalanced policing' that discourages peers to participate, as has been suggested?
What do you think?
I haven't got time for the long answer I was planning but essentially, the reasons behind my diminishing participation are the generally decreasing quality of the questions being asked (dictionary fodder, lack of context, mis-labelled questions and so on) combined with the site's refusal (for that is what it amounts to) to do anything about it - and indeed to encourage all comers, prohibit attempted enforcement of "rules" on context and dictionary use and s*d the quality of the questions, answers or glossary, not to mention the opinions of the answerers who helped make Kudoz what it once was. I would be very happy if Henry or some member of staff cared to take me up on this, but I fail to see how their reactions to various threads like this one over the last couple of years can be interpreted in any other way.
| | | | Andy Watkinson
Hiszpania
Local time: 00:47
Członek ProZ.com
kataloński > angielski
+ ...
| Need a personal support ticket for this, Teresa? | Sep 4, 2008 |
I take it you're referring to the following:
"However, when a staff member comes across a thread that, for example, is more of a personal support ticket than a topic for discussion, he or she may unset the featured status".
In plain English, remove the (embarrassing) thread from the homepage.
So "staff member Jared" dutifully removed this thread from the homepage and "explained" this unsubtle move by quoting the above?
According to you Henry, this must be because he considers that Teresa doesn't want to discuss the topic of quality of one of the main sections of this site, as is KudoZ, one which I would have thought of the greatest interest for everyone involved, starting with ProZ.com itself.
No, Jared thinks Teresa is in need of a "personal support ticket".
Hardly surprising then that valuable members either leave or reduce their participation in this site to a minimum, in the light of such feeble excuses as this.
Andy
| | | | | Quoting the FAQ | Sep 4, 2008 |
Teresa Duran-Sanchez wrote:
None of your staff, nor you, have still given a good reason why you took out my post out of the Recent post list
I suggest:
1. You mention one of your existings FAQS which could explain why you took my post away from the main page (you will find none, otherwise you would have mentioned it already)
You have been given it twice now - are you not clicking the link? I'll quote from it here: "14. How is it determined whether or not a forum thread will be featured on the home page?
The home page is important real estate to the ProZ.com community, insomuch as it commands a high degree of member attention and time. In the interest of providing the best possible workplace environment, ProZ.com's staff exercises editorial control over what appears on it (as is common in publishing)..."
In light of the post that followed yours -- and I link to it again: http://www.proz.com/topic/114448 -- your post was not deemed to be home page material.
I am sorry. I hope this is clear.
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| Answer to Marie-Hélène | Sep 4, 2008 |
Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote: ... would you care to reply to my last post on the "Good citizenship" thread? Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
I haven't got time for the long answer I was planning but essentially, the reasons behind my diminishing participation are the generally decreasing quality of the questions being asked (dictionary fodder, lack of context, mis-labelled questions and so on) combined with the site's refusal (for that is what it amounts to) to do anything about it - and indeed to encourage all comers, prohibit attempted enforcement of "rules" on context and dictionary use and s*d the quality of the questions, answers or glossary, not to mention the opinions of the answerers who helped make Kudoz what it once was.
I would be very happy if Henry or some member of staff cared to take me up on this, but I fail to see how their reactions to various threads like this one over the last couple of years can be interpreted in any other way.
This may be your experience. We certainly hear it from others as well. We take it seriously. As suggested by one member - Ford Prefect, I think -- we organized a structured review of KudoZ quality, in terms of questions and answers, in the Spanish subcommunity (where such complaints were common). The reviewers selected were those who are very highly regarded participants in the KudoZ network. Based on what the reviewers reported, it appears that quality has not been declining overall, but has been consistent over a three year period. And the number of participants - both askers and answers -- has increased, not decreased.
You say that the site (presumably site staff members) "refuse" to "do anything about 'it'" ("it" being the quality problem that in your opinion exists). Whether one believes that KudoZ quality is diminishing or not, the truth is, there have been numerous improvements made to KudoZ this year. Site developers are working on more.
Thanks for your post.
| | | | | Such a difference in opinion.... | Sep 5, 2008 |
Henry D wrote: We take it seriously. As suggested by one member - Ford Prefect, I think -- we organized a structured review of KudoZ quality, in terms of questions and answers, in the Spanish subcommunity (where such complaints were common). The reviewers selected were those who are very highly regarded participants in the KudoZ network. Based on what the reviewers reported, it appears that quality has not been declining overall, but has been consistent over a three year period. And the number of participants - both askers and answers -- has increased, not decreased.
Now I wonder how is it possible that the experience of the reviewers is so different from that of so many participants who have expressed their concerns in numerous postings over the last years?
This is just a rethoric question. I don't really need a reply. The number of askers and answerers has increased and I can understand that this is what Proz needs as a business. I no longer feel the urge to participate in a "hunt for a better Kudoz", after trying several times and seeing very little reaction or feedback in the right direction. Kudoz as it is now is producing the results Proz needs as a company, so it will continue to be like this.
And after all, each of us can quickly assess whether Kudoz is useful or not, has quality or not, makes sense or not, depending on our circumstances, hopes and expectations.
| | | | | When quantity is mistakenly considered equivalent to quality | Sep 5, 2008 |
Henry D wrote: In light of the post that followed yours -- and I link to it again: http://www.proz.com/topic/114448 -- your post was not deemed to be home page material. I am sorry. I hope this is clear.
Dear Henry. Are you telling me that because ONE SINGLE USER said in the topic http://www.proz.com/topic/114448 that she didn´t want to see KudoZ forum posts in the Home page, KudoZ is not an issue of interest to the Proz.com community?
KudoZ is very important for YOU indeed, and in case you don´t know it, KudoZ is an important issue for most users of this site. Or maybe I should say the glossary, because that´s the real important part of it.
If KudoZ is not important, why did other thread on KudoZ, which appeared a couple of hours before mine, remained in the Home page while my thread disappeared?
A contradiction again.
Henry D wrote:
Based on what the reviewers reported, it appears that quality has not been declining overall, but has been consistent over a three year period. And the number of participants - both askers and answers -- has increased, not decreased.
(…) Whether one believes that KudoZ quality is diminishing or not, the truth is, there have been numerous improvements made to KudoZ this year. Site developers are working on more.
Thanks for your post.
Quality HAS declined, that is a fact and you´ve seen it written so often, that it´s high time you believed it, Henry. The fact that the number of users has increased doesn´t mean that quality goes the same way. Actually quantity tends to play against quality.
Still, the increase in the number of users adding entries to the glossary is desirable for everybody, specially for you, Henry. So please don´t think we´re against KudoZ or the popularity of it.
The glossary: I don´t know if you´re aware of how important it is. KudoZ glossary is the last tool most translators resort to when they can´t find a term in their usual translation tools, and sometimes it´s of great help, even just by giving a simple hint. I myself know many people who don´t have a profile in Proz (teachers, students, terminologists) but use the KudoZ search tool to look up a term. I´m now lecturing Terminology at the Faculty of Translation in Las Palmas and I have told my students to use that tool (use it carefully because it´s not very reliable, but use it). Maybe you´re not aware of the popularity of that search tool, of its potential, otherwise you´d do more to improve its quality.
The KudoZ glossary is the tool that suffers most from the lost of quality in KudoZ, because a term without an explanation or a reference, or a term which was chosen at random, is simply not reliable enough.
Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
Kudoz as it is now is producing the results Proz needs as a company, so it will continue to be like this.
No, it won´t continue to be like this, it will get worse unless you do something to improve the quality of the user´s contributions to KudoZ AND the quality of the entries in the glossary. I personally think that giving BrowniZ for the 'agrees` is a terrible mistake. Some people agree at random, just for the BrowniZ.
Andy Watkinson wrote:
I take it you're referring to the following:
"However, when a staff member comes across a thread that, for example, is more of a personal support ticket than a topic for discussion, he or she may unset the featured status".
In plain English, remove the (embarrassing) thread from the homepage.
So "staff member Jared" dutifully removed this thread from the homepage and "explained" this unsubtle move by quoting the above?
According to you Henry, this must be because he considers that Teresa doesn't want to discuss the topic of quality of one of the main sections of this site, as is KudoZ, one which I would have thought of the greatest interest for everyone involved, starting with ProZ.com itself.
No, Jared thinks Teresa is in need of a "personal support ticket".
Hardly surprising then that valuable members either leave or reduce their participation in this site to a minimum, in the light of such feeble excuses as this.
Andy
I was very surprised to see my thread dissapear from the Home page yesterday. There is no explanation, or to be precise, the explanation is not satisfactory. Henry has told me that my thread was not interesting because it is about KudoZ. One single user said the very same day she didn´t want to see KudoZ forum posts, and the site staff understood that the will of one single person is representative of the will of everybody on this site. Accordingly, all Forum posts on KudoZ should have disappeared from the Home page, but the fact is that only mine was taken away from the list. A mistery.
I don´t think my thread was controversial or a menace to anybody. I was being nostalgic (maybe that’s a “personal support ticket”) of how KudoZ used to be before, and I tried to encourage a better use of it.
My message was: please write an explanation or a reference when you post a reply to a KudoZ question.
I believe my topic was quite interesting and relevant, so removing it from the Home page was terribly unfair and a big mistake. It has discouraged me from using this Forum and this site. Most important, it has discouraged me of encouraging the use of this site.
KudoZ IS important. Please don´t hide KudoZ forum posts: you can learn a lot from our opinions, Henry. We´re not enemies.
Thank you everybody for all the support I´ve received.
| | | | Nikki Graham
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 23:47
hiszpański > angielski
| Sorry, but I don't get this | Sep 5, 2008 |
Henry D wrote: In light of the post that followed yours -- and I link to it again: http://www.proz.com/topic/114448 -- your post was not deemed to be home page material. I am sorry. I hope this is clear.
Given that everyone can adjust their settings not to see certain forum posts on the home page, why does a thread (and specifically this one) have to be removed? Why can't people just be reminded about this feature (and the purpose of the customize button) instead?
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Nikki Graham
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 23:47
hiszpański > angielski
| Some thoughts | Sep 5, 2008 |
I understand where you are coming from, Teresa, but people have been using "that's it" "ya" "*" or similar for even longer than you mention. Actually, I started a thread in January 2002 in the Spanish forum complaining about this very same topic (I won't post a link to it here, because that was before all the rules were introduced and I fear it may contravene some nowadays!), and I only started answering questions in August 2001 (so it only took me four months to get fed up...).
Bac... See more I understand where you are coming from, Teresa, but people have been using "that's it" "ya" "*" or similar for even longer than you mention. Actually, I started a thread in January 2002 in the Spanish forum complaining about this very same topic (I won't post a link to it here, because that was before all the rules were introduced and I fear it may contravene some nowadays!), and I only started answering questions in August 2001 (so it only took me four months to get fed up...).
Back then there was real camaraderie in the Spanish to English KudoZ arena and it was great fun. But then this "point chasing" attitude crept in, along with this trend of no explanations or endless (and often useless) Google hits (see: How to win the KudoZ race, which I posted in March 2003, for more examples). In the end, this started to drive people away.
It doesn't surprise me that a recent review of KudoZ (mentioned by Henry D) shows that quality remained the same over the three-year period studied, because these problems have been around for a lot longer than that.
Perhaps it's not so much a case of the "good old days", but trying to hone KudoZ so that its purpose and use fit in with our expectations. In other words, KudoZ always was and always will be a great idea. However, for as long as I have known it, it has also always been, and perhaps always will be, misused by both askers and answerers.
[Edited at 2008-09-05 12:05] ▲ Collapse
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Nikki Graham wrote:
Given that everyone can adjust their settings not to see certain forum posts on the home page, why does a thread (and specifically this one) have to be removed? Why can't people just be reminded about this feature (and the purpose of the customize button) instead?
Same thing with this thread http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/112294-kudoz_release:_discussion_area_and_other_improvements.html which has been updated since this morning but that does not appear on the "latest post" page...
| | | | | Reply to Teresa | Sep 5, 2008 |
Teresa Duran-Sanchez wrote: Henry D wrote: In light of the post that followed yours -- and I link to it again: http://www.proz.com/topic/114448 -- your post was not deemed to be home page material. Dear Henry. Are you telling me that because ONE SINGLE USER said in the topic http://www.proz.com/topic/114448 that she didn´t want to see KudoZ forum posts in the Home page, KudoZ is not an issue of interest to the Proz.com community?
No. Based on my experience, this poster's opinion is representative of a large number of site users.
Henry has told me that my thread was not interesting because it is about KudoZ.
I never said anything of the sort. KudoZ is arguably the most important service on the site.
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