| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Kudoz abuse? Thread poster: Per Bergvall
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Colin Ryan (X) 
Local time: 00:50
Italian to English
+ ...
| I think it's OK to use KudoZ like this | Mar 3, 2010 |
You can't always predict what will come up in a job. In the past Kudoz has saved my life. For example, once I was translating a huge parts list for a company that made just about everything; I'm pretty good in many areas of engineering, but how on Earth was I supposed to know all of those terms?
I think that the best "check" on this "abuse" (as you call it) of KudoZ is the limit to the number of questions we can ask in a 24 hour period. When a translator knows they only have 15 roll... See more You can't always predict what will come up in a job. In the past Kudoz has saved my life. For example, once I was translating a huge parts list for a company that made just about everything; I'm pretty good in many areas of engineering, but how on Earth was I supposed to know all of those terms?
I think that the best "check" on this "abuse" (as you call it) of KudoZ is the limit to the number of questions we can ask in a 24 hour period. When a translator knows they only have 15 rolls of the dice, he or she will make them count.
I see no reason to alter KudoZ for this scenario. (What does bug me is people who don't even speak my language replying to KudoZ queries, after looking up a word in some online dictionary somewhere and submitting it with "Just an idea" in the explanation field... next time that happens I'm just going to refuse the answer outright.) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Limit of questions | Mar 3, 2010 |
Ioanna Orfanoudaki wrote:
Just a question of curiosity to the community: what would you think if someone translating a dictionary started flooding Kudoz with terminology questions, one after the other? I actually watched this happen some time ago. Initially, I thought that it was just like any translation job, but the more I thought about it, the more sceptical I got...
There is a limit of number of questions one may ask a day so it should not be a problem. And IMHO it would be rather useful - with every answered question Proz.com becomes more and more valuable source of information for linguists and laymen around the world.
Also the more questions and answers the higher in Google appears Proz.com what makes it more likely that someone looking for translation is going to find information about us - translators in the Directory.
Best Regards
Stanislaw
| | | | Amy Duncan (X)
Brazil
Local time: 19:50
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| KudoZ can be especially helpful for beginning translators | Mar 3, 2010 |
Before we become too harsh about people asking a lot of questions, I'd just like to suggest that KudoZ is a very good way to help beginning translators. Sometimes, when you're starting out, you can't find everything you need in dictionaries or by doing online searches. KudoZ is the ideal way to find terms that you can't find in other places. It's true that some people are just too lazy to pick up a dictionary and some who may take jobs that are way over their heads, but let's not forget the begi... See more Before we become too harsh about people asking a lot of questions, I'd just like to suggest that KudoZ is a very good way to help beginning translators. Sometimes, when you're starting out, you can't find everything you need in dictionaries or by doing online searches. KudoZ is the ideal way to find terms that you can't find in other places. It's true that some people are just too lazy to pick up a dictionary and some who may take jobs that are way over their heads, but let's not forget the beginners. I think we should be happy to help them. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Desdemone (X)
Local time: 19:50
French to English
| What constitutes a beginner? | Mar 3, 2010 |
Amy Duncan wrote:
Before we become too harsh about people asking a lot of questions, I'd just like to suggest that KudoZ is a very good way to help beginning translators. Sometimes, when you're starting out, you can't find everything you need in dictionaries or by doing online searches. KudoZ is the ideal way to find terms that you can't find in other places. It's true that some people are just too lazy to pick up a dictionary and some who may take jobs that are way over their heads, but let's not forget the beginners. I think we should be happy to help them.
The problem is, what constitutes a beginner? On this site, it appears to be anyone who thinks they have any kind of facility in two languages. I'm happy to help beginning translators, i.e., people who have taken the time to get some kind of education and training, and have some idea of what is involved in translating a text, how to do basic research (yes, apparently consulting a dictionary is news to some folks), what the word proof-reading means (how many times has that question been asked?), and so on. As someone pointed out earlier, there appears to be increasing numbers of "translators" who cannot even parse a sentence correctly. So yes, I'm always happy to help beginners - beginner translators. And impressive résumés boasting years of experience in 75 disciplines are apparently no guarantee of even basic translation skills.
[Edited at 2010-03-03 14:37 GMT]
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| But Kudoz is used instead of dictionaries and online searches | Mar 3, 2010 |
Amy Duncan wrote:
Before we become too harsh about people asking a lot of questions, I'd just like to suggest that KudoZ is a very good way to help beginning translators. Sometimes, when you're starting out, you can't find everything you need in dictionaries or by doing online searches. KudoZ is the ideal way to find terms that you can't find in other places. It's true that some people are just too lazy to pick up a dictionary and some who may take jobs that are way over their heads, but let's not forget the beginners. I think we should be happy to help them.
I agree with you Amy but sadly Kudoz is used as an alternative to looking things up and/or online searches. Increasing numbers of people seem to consider Kudoz as a (re)search engine and simply don't bother looking before they post. They post instead of looking. That becomes obvious the second one takes a look in a dictionary or on the www and finds the term immediately.
Plus it's become a life raft for keeping people afloat who would otherwise sink to the bottom. People who are ill-prepared to do the jobs they accepted, who are translating between 2 foreign languages, who don't master the source language well enough to translate it, who don't master the target language well enough to translate into it, people who don't know the field, jargon etc etc. Without Kudoz, many of these people would sink below the surface as translators.
As Paula says, help beginning translators-people who have all the skills and are starting out, yes, but they aren't the people who are abusing Kudoz.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
Hi,
Of course I can say for sure only about myself, yet I quite seldom (to my judge) use KudoZ not alternatively to a dictionary lookup, but as an alternative source of the info - for the items I can't find or if what I find doesn't agree with my mind and the context.
IMO it's really rather difficult to find a correct meaning of some specialized patter (jargon), because 'official' sources may lead one astray providing already irrelevant or even obsolete data. Ne... See more Hi,
Of course I can say for sure only about myself, yet I quite seldom (to my judge) use KudoZ not alternatively to a dictionary lookup, but as an alternative source of the info - for the items I can't find or if what I find doesn't agree with my mind and the context.
IMO it's really rather difficult to find a correct meaning of some specialized patter (jargon), because 'official' sources may lead one astray providing already irrelevant or even obsolete data. New terms come every day, that's why we have 'specialization'.
Also mind 'non-English' English texts full of terms and even letters errs with omissions. In one medical text I had to think for some five minutes to understand why 'The err is human' became 'The human is err'. I'm still in doubt)
Without Kudoz, many of these people would sink below the surface as translators.
Are you sure? Rather often I see such 'prominent' answers that I think twice before asking or even searching KudoZ. Well, I must admit that a couple of times I did overlook the 'field' and gave 'my correct' answer. It took me about an hour to understand why those cool 'specialists' couldn't see the obvious things and were arguing with me in vain
[Edited at 2010-03-04 10:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Some sites are not open to beginners | Mar 4, 2010 |
Proz.com is open to anyone interested, which means we do get beginners and wannabes who do not qualify for other sites.
The best of them develop into professionals, and can contribute with the latest knowledge from the universities or wherever they gather it.
If we all act like professionals, they can learn from that too.
It is permissible when answering KudoZ to say ´I found this in dictionary XX, which I recommend to every translator in this pair´ - as... See more Proz.com is open to anyone interested, which means we do get beginners and wannabes who do not qualify for other sites.
The best of them develop into professionals, and can contribute with the latest knowledge from the universities or wherever they gather it.
If we all act like professionals, they can learn from that too.
It is permissible when answering KudoZ to say ´I found this in dictionary XX, which I recommend to every translator in this pair´ - as long as you do not add ´Why don´t you buy it, stupid?´or words to that effect... The Mods do not remove polite, impersonal remarks, even if they chuckle at the insinuation that the asker still has a lot to learn.
And finally, there is the filter feature, which saves my sanity now and then. It will not make people disappear from the site altogether, but if someone annoys you, you can filter out their KudoZ posts from your mailbox, and it does make it easier to ignore them.
[Edited at 2010-03-04 20:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | This is an old problem | Mar 4, 2010 |
What I hate most of all is the hunt for points. Sometimes the suggestions are utterly wrong and the fight starts amongst those who have answered the question.
In the last weeks I got very lazy in answering questions but I really only answer questions which are interesting to me and where I know from my own expertise that I have the correct solution.
Internet links are nice but sometimes utterly wrong.
Some weeks ago a lady in our language combination who did not speak English o... See more What I hate most of all is the hunt for points. Sometimes the suggestions are utterly wrong and the fight starts amongst those who have answered the question.
In the last weeks I got very lazy in answering questions but I really only answer questions which are interesting to me and where I know from my own expertise that I have the correct solution.
Internet links are nice but sometimes utterly wrong.
Some weeks ago a lady in our language combination who did not speak English or German at all asked so many questions that somebody asked her about this habit. She finally admitted her inability to speak any of the languages and simply wanted to have her CV translated. Seh wasn't even a translator or student. So how wrong is that?
I think the possibility to ask questions is essential for all of us. Sometimes we are simply too tired to find the solution on our own and getting help is perfectly acceptable. Especially for the beginners.
On the other hand is the misuse by some askers is quite obvious as they never answer a single question.
Qualified or not, specialist or not: this is not the point. Sometimes we are forced to accept jobs we do not like from the start. Therefore we might miss a special term and are greatful to get help from others. But we should then at least help others as well.
I think the problem is that there are some translators who accept jobs for which they are simply not qualified enough. This becomes obvious if you read their questions. ▲ Collapse
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Anne Greaves
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:50
French to English
| Beginner's perspective | Mar 14, 2010 |
I agree that Kudoz should not be abused as a source of free advice for jobs you shouldn't have taken in the first place. However as a new translator starting off as a freelance with no specialist degree, ie in law or medicine, I have found that the only way to a) enlarge my range b) pay my bills, is to sometimes accept jobs in unfamiliar fields. Which isn't to say take everything that's offered, the trick is to know where to draw the line and that also comes with experience.
| | | | | outsourcing vs sole play | Mar 14, 2010 |
Anaviva wrote:
The beauty of this site and this community is that we can all help each other. Then again, not everyone uses this site in this way.
Quite so, Anaviva!
Getting to know Proz and Kudoz activities has been a great experience for me and I totally agree with you, Anaviva. I think we must admit that there's one thing both fundamental and positive in this discussion, and that is: outsourcing is the future of MOST of professional activities as much as the times of lonly heros have long since passed ...
... And for good measure, I dare say that the human civilization itself is going to survive basically having resorted to the principals of cooperation. And I am only amazed at how unfriendly some colleagues may be when discussing someone else's answers or queries..
Actually, Kudoz, imho, presents a limitless field for research of human nature , too. .
[Edited at 2010-03-14 13:27 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-03-14 15:48 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-03-14 15:50 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-03-14 16:50 GMT]
| | | | | Kudoz seems to inspire a lot of aggression... | Mar 27, 2010 |
Hello, I'm new to this forum and hopefully not posting out of line. I came looking for a forum topic on Kudoz after being amazed not so much by the obvious nature of some questions (there are a lot of them as Rob said) but by the agressivity of some of the responses. I have been on the end of this myself posting questions without understanding if it was because the query was idiotic (doubtful, they were always fairly erudite contexts), because I was treading on someone's toes, or simply becaus... See more Hello, I'm new to this forum and hopefully not posting out of line. I came looking for a forum topic on Kudoz after being amazed not so much by the obvious nature of some questions (there are a lot of them as Rob said) but by the agressivity of some of the responses. I have been on the end of this myself posting questions without understanding if it was because the query was idiotic (doubtful, they were always fairly erudite contexts), because I was treading on someone's toes, or simply because the primary assumption is that askers are inept. I do not have a qualification in translation; strangely enough I got into translation by teaching it - and therefore practising it - alongside some extremely well qualified and helpful people over a period of more than ten years. As an academic and teacher, my strong feeling is that admitting ignorance is the gateway to knowledge. Nobody can learn if they are too afraid to ask questions. I believe I am a good translator, but I know I am still learning (which sometimes means branching into new fields). Surely the important thing is to ask. Does anyone agree? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rebecca Davis
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:50
French to English
+ ...
| Response to Susan's comment | Mar 27, 2010 |
I absolutely agree. If you are a novice translator, or even a more experienced translator who is simply just "stuck" on something that is outside your field, the best thing to do is to ask. You have nothing to lose and you (and your client) may well gain something from asking the question.
Personally, I don't think most askers are "inept"; in fact, in many cases, the way the questions are phrased suggest that they may have arrived at the correct answer already, but simply wanted to doubl... See more I absolutely agree. If you are a novice translator, or even a more experienced translator who is simply just "stuck" on something that is outside your field, the best thing to do is to ask. You have nothing to lose and you (and your client) may well gain something from asking the question.
Personally, I don't think most askers are "inept"; in fact, in many cases, the way the questions are phrased suggest that they may have arrived at the correct answer already, but simply wanted to double-check with other professionals in the field.
No one is under an obligation to answer or respond to KudoZ questions. If people respond aggressively, or try to make the asker feel "inept" in some way, then I would gently suggest that the problem is not with the asker... ▲ Collapse
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| points-help-jealousy-hate-gratitude-common sense.... | Mar 27, 2010 |
There is a naive song for kids in Russian which consists of two questions:
What are boys made from?
What are girls made from?
And some answers for boys (freckles, crackers, rulers, batteries etc) and for girls (flowers, marmalade etc)
What about kudoz? There are so many situations and such a variety of characters involved.
Beginners, losers, the lazy, the lonely - you come across all sorts.
There are those who are eager to share an ... See more There is a naive song for kids in Russian which consists of two questions:
What are boys made from?
What are girls made from?
And some answers for boys (freckles, crackers, rulers, batteries etc) and for girls (flowers, marmalade etc)
What about kudoz? There are so many situations and such a variety of characters involved.
Beginners, losers, the lazy, the lonely - you come across all sorts.
There are those who are eager to share an interesting linguistic problem and those who need to fill in anything in order to feel they 'translated' it.
There are people like me who answer questions when they have time and ask quite a few when the deadline is pressing leaving too little time for research or for pondering over a tricky phrase.
There are people who rarely ask questions, though they answer quite a lot. Reasons? A bunch to choose from.
Abuse? Why should it worry anyone? IMO, the only emotion it should cause is pity.
Both for the 'translatEr' and the client.
Still, the client deserves what s/he gets in such a case, don't you think?
[Edited at 2010-03-28 15:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Kudoz abuse? | Mar 28, 2010 |
I asked myself many month ago if Kudozitis was addictive? And after reading and hearing the specialists, I answered myself: Yes, Kudozitis belongs to a new group of compulsive gambling pathologies that need psychiatric treatment as like any other pathology.
Another of the current new pathologies is facebooks abuse, better known as the FB-syndrome... See more I asked myself many month ago if Kudozitis was addictive? And after reading and hearing the specialists, I answered myself: Yes, Kudozitis belongs to a new group of compulsive gambling pathologies that need psychiatric treatment as like any other pathology.
Another of the current new pathologies is facebooks abuse, better known as the FB-syndrome. I am sick myself, but I am looking for te best treatment at the best psychiatric hospital in Spain, because my pathology is not so well known as the other one mentioned before:
I suffer from compulsive forums writing... 
But, after laughing a little about ourselves and answering to the main question of the thread, as we say in Spain: contra el vicio de pedir, está la virtud de no dar (against the vice of begging, there is the virtue of not giving...) ...
[Editado a las 2010-03-29 00:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | apk12
Germany
Local time: 00:50
English to German
+ ...
| Kudozitis mystery | Mar 28, 2010 |
Pablo Bouvier wrote: I asked myself many month ago if Kudozitis was addictive? ...
:--) Kudozitis - interesting diagnosis, in fact.
Even after several months of membership, I have to admit there are a few things on proz which probably will stay a mystery to me forever. First one is the "translation job to offer, extremely urgent, please deliver asap and don't forget the ketchup, we pay 0.02, thanks a lot"-attitude as tolerated by the site staff in a kind of self-destructive (masochistic) act.
The other one is definitely this Kudozitis-virus. I am still trying to decode it. As far as I have understood so far, the answerers want to get kudoz-points awarded for their answers in order to get their profiles up in the search result ranking. Alright.
But when I see profiles from time to time with several thousands (!) of kudoz points and recall that there seem to be up to 4 points awarded for a chosen answer... and just think of the time it takes you to prepare the answer (research, writing answer, entering and formatting incl. the required researched reference links...) - and then simply multiplicate the amount of answers with the time needed for each of them - then I actually end up wondering how on earth all those people find time to work on actual translation work on their desks, even IF there once comes an interesting inquiry from a search result record referrer.
Of course, valuable help for the askers, but - just another mystery for my exceedingly moderate math skills...
[Edited at 2010-03-28 15:50 GMT]
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