| Număr de pagini: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: Does translation memory software jeopardize creativity? Inițiatorul discuției: ProZ.com Staff
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Jocelyne S 
Franţa
Local time: 01:57
din franceză în engleză
+ ...
| No - You can adapt your tools! | Mar 2, 2010 |
I have to disagree with those who have argued that CAT tools don't work for literary translation.
I never translate technical documents and yet I am entirely grateful towards (and dependent on) my CAT tool.
A CAT tool in no way hinders the creative process - you just need to adapt the tool to suit your purpose.
The "expand segment" button is brilliant for when you need more than a simple sentence to turn things to your liking. I never have repetitions in ... See more I have to disagree with those who have argued that CAT tools don't work for literary translation.
I never translate technical documents and yet I am entirely grateful towards (and dependent on) my CAT tool.
A CAT tool in no way hinders the creative process - you just need to adapt the tool to suit your purpose.
The "expand segment" button is brilliant for when you need more than a simple sentence to turn things to your liking. I never have repetitions in the documents I translate, but the "context search" feature to look up how I've translated terms before has literally saved me hours of research time.
Creativity aside, using a CAT tool also means that you are far less likely to skip a sentence or have layout issues.
In sum, although my CAT tool is never used on technical documents or with repetitive texts, it helps me structure my translations to my liking and certainly does no harm to the creative juices in my case.
Best,
Jocelyne ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Apparently creativity is Brazilian stuff | Mar 2, 2010 |
Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
I don't understand why a question like this is in the poll. Or does the asker simply doesn't know anything about translation memory software? The software itself does not do the translation; it assists translators translate documents and notifies the translator if there are no matches, fuzzy matches or repetitions in each segment. The translation memory software has nothing to do with the translator's creativity.
Amy, Richard and me, so far, all in Brazil, voted YES.
The point is that while repeating the same word over and over again to indicate the same thing is highly valued as "consistency" in English, in Portuguese (at least Brazilian) it is seen as most undesirable vocabulary and style "poverty". A poor writer in PT-BR is someone who can say one thing in one way only; while a good writer is a resourceful individual who can say the same thing in a dozen - or more - different ways. Brazilians are creative people by nature... or by osmosis. It's a survival strategy to keep our spirits high nationwide, in spite of decades and decades of bad government.
TMs offer an easy way out. If the translation found in the TM is correct, the all-pervasive law of the least effort takes over and lures us into merely accepting it, to proceed to the next segment, instead of having our brain work on something more creative.
I guess most of my translation work is creative, as I seldom get a job that has as much as 5% repetitions, and fuzzy matches in the 75-99% range are most always zilch. Maybe it's a chicken-and-egg situation. Clients tend to look for less creative translators when fuzzy match rates are high.
Off-topic about Brazilian creativity...
Last week I translated some material on how flex-fuel (any mix of gasoline and ethanol) cars were developed here. The flex-fuel concept was developed in the USA: an onboard computer would analyze the incoming fuel through a probe and, based on that result, would compute and adjust the engine settigs for the mix. That computer was so outrageously expensive that it was only viable in cars having a six-digit USD price tag.
The Brazilian solution was amazingly simple. Since cars with electronic fuel injection already had a bunch of probes, all they did was to add a processor that would burn the incoming fuel ONCE (such burns occur (RPM x number of cylinders) times per minute, typically 3,600 times per minute on a 4-cyl engine idling, so the process takes 1/3600 of a second), then take the readings from all these sensors, compare them to a preset database, and adjust the engine using the readily available data. Bottom line: the flex-fuel car costs basically the same as the ethanol-only car. (A really minor surcharge covers the cost of coating some parts to resist contact with both fuels.)
| | | | | No I don't care, because a tool is a tool is a tool | Mar 2, 2010 |
CAT's utility for me is very limited. I only use it for my convenience.
It is a tool. Just like a knife, a pair of scissors, a roll of toilet paper, a desk, a PC.
These are all tools, just like CAT.
Let take example in pen. Does a pen helps you to be more creative in your efforts to write an inspiring story? Hell no!
Creativity must reside in you before you own the pen. What matters most is your talent (in particular, our case in translating). CAT is a tool.
If you... See more CAT's utility for me is very limited. I only use it for my convenience.
It is a tool. Just like a knife, a pair of scissors, a roll of toilet paper, a desk, a PC.
These are all tools, just like CAT.
Let take example in pen. Does a pen helps you to be more creative in your efforts to write an inspiring story? Hell no!
Creativity must reside in you before you own the pen. What matters most is your talent (in particular, our case in translating). CAT is a tool.
If you assume that talent of yours is affected by mere tool such as CAT, something is quite wrong with your thinking mode.
BTW ..... Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
I don't understand why a question like this is in the poll.
I am with ProZ nearly 7 years, and saw questions repeated every 2, 3 months. This poll is just a piece in ProZ cyber space real estate asserting its own presence. Namely it's there so we can exchange some thoughts, some are meaningful, some are not so. I suggest you would not seek much substance in this space. It is here to have some fun (with some success). ▲ Collapse
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Dear colleagues, thank you for your replies. The fact that there are more than one or two and the fact that some of the opinions are mutually exclusive prove my point. There is something to think about in this regard. My software of choice is "good ole' Word". Good luck everyone!
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Giles Watson
Italia
Local time: 01:57
din italiană în engleză
In Memoriam | TMs don't translate | Mar 2, 2010 |
CATs are tools for organising and managing texts, not translating them. They do not jeopardise creativity - if anything, they offer you new ways to be creative - but an inexperienced user may be distracted from the job of translation by the complexity of the program.
CATs impose their own workflows and this can irritate translators who, initially at least, find the environment complicated, or even intimidating. However, the benefits of having source, target and - particularly - lega... See more CATs are tools for organising and managing texts, not translating them. They do not jeopardise creativity - if anything, they offer you new ways to be creative - but an inexperienced user may be distracted from the job of translation by the complexity of the program.
CATs impose their own workflows and this can irritate translators who, initially at least, find the environment complicated, or even intimidating. However, the benefits of having source, target and - particularly - legacy texts at your fingertips easily outweigh any drawbacks.
Obviously, the benefits vary depending on the text types you translate. I find CATs wonderful with technical work, indispensable for ongoing projects (journalism and industrial clients in my case) and less crucial, but still well worth using, for books and more literary stuff.
The segment focus CAT tools induce is a genuine problem, which is why it's a good idea to print out (and, preferably, read out loud) translations for review. Currently, though, having migrated recently from Trados Workbench to Studio, I am finding segmentation to be much less of a problem. The side-by-side editor on a nice big screen gives you a much better view of the local context. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | To: José Henrique Lamensdorf | Mar 2, 2010 |
I' ve always wanted to go to Brasil. I never knew why. My wife's dream has always been to let it all out at the carnival in Rio. Now i understand it must have been the creativity issue. Folks down here know nothing about it. My next destination is Brasil, to heck with the weekends i'm gonna have to work to pay for it. I am sure it's worth every dime)))))
| | | | Steven Capsuto
Statele Unite
Local time: 19:57
Membru (2004)
din spaniolă în engleză
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| I understand the concern... but no, not necessarily | Mar 2, 2010 |
This concern was why I avoided CAT tools for a long time: the fear that when a match popped up, my creativity would be hamstrung by the previous translation. I was concerned that once I saw the suggestion, I wouldn't be able to think of more context-appropriate solutions that otherwise would have occurred to me instinctively.
The reality isn't that bad. For technical translations, it's not a problem at all, and CAT tools help me improve productivity, consistency and quality.
<... See more This concern was why I avoided CAT tools for a long time: the fear that when a match popped up, my creativity would be hamstrung by the previous translation. I was concerned that once I saw the suggestion, I wouldn't be able to think of more context-appropriate solutions that otherwise would have occurred to me instinctively.
The reality isn't that bad. For technical translations, it's not a problem at all, and CAT tools help me improve productivity, consistency and quality.
For literary translations, I avoid the threat to creativity by mentally translating each segment before opening it in the CAT tool. Even for literary work, I'm glad to have Trados, since it lets me do concordance searches and see how I translated a term or phrase earlier in the text. If you're translating something where characters have catch phrases, the concordance function saves a ton of time and makes for a much more consistent result.
[Edited at 2010-03-02 17:27 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You don't translate literary texts or poetry with a CAT tool! | Mar 2, 2010 |
Heike Kurtz wrote:
Of course, CAT tools support consistent terminology (i.e. dull use of the same translation for the same word) and narrow the view to just one segment at a time.
This poll compares apples with pears (as we say in Germany). CAT tools have been created to cope with large amounts of repetitive texts. Literature and poetry are written to be anything but repetitive. So there's no use in translating literature or poetry with a CAT tool. And there is no use in not using it on a highly repetitive technical or financial text where the same words and phrases need to be translated the same throughout the whole thing.
Just like Heike said, CAT Tools are productivity tools which help work faster and keep consistency for repetitive kind of work. It makes no sense to translate a novel or poetry with a CAT Tool and I don't think that the TM would be of much use for other "similar" projects.
I translate and review a large amount of marketing materials which requiere a great amount of creativity to provide a good rendering and I don't find my CAT tools limiting at all.
[Edited at 2010-03-02 17:31 GMT]
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Giles Watson
Italia
Local time: 01:57
din italiană în engleză
In Memoriam
Gabriela Abraham wrote:
Just like Heike said, CAT Tools are productivity tools which help work faster and keep consistency for repetitive kind of work. It makes no sense to translate a novel or poetry with a CAT Tool and I don't think that the TM would be of much use for other "similar" projects.
I translate and review a large amount of marketing materials which requiere a great amount of creativity to provide a good rendering and I don't find my CAT tools limiting at all.
This sounds a little contradictory, Gabriela. If CAT tools are not a limiting factor, you can presumably use them for any text you like.
There is nothing inherently "unliterary" about CATs. I must admit that on the few occasions when I have translated madrigals, sonnets and other short poems, I didn't bother with one but I can assure you that for anything book length, the concordance feature alone makes a CAT a better choice than Word or pen and paper. Of course, you may not agree if you're still young enough to be able trust your memory
As I said before, CATs are text management tools. You can get most of the benefits they offer from various other applications but the CAT gives them to you in the same environment.
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Gabriela Abraham wrote:
It makes no sense to translate a novel or poetry with a CAT Tool and I don't think that the
I know nothing about Trados, and won't have it, because there is too much pressure from certain penny-pinching translation agencies saying that I must either have Trados (to give them overly generous discounts on fuzzy matches) or get lost. I intend to be living evidence that I don't "must have Trados", so I use WordFast.
As I said before, I seldom face matches - either fuzzy or full - in my translations. Furthermore, MS Word is second to none as the worst DTP tool available... for people who consider it a DTP tool. So WF helps me a lot in preventing skipped phrases, as well as preserving Word formatting.
However this has nothing to do with the original question, about translation memory. Bottom line is that a CAT tool without a useful translation memory is unable to hamper creativity.
| | | | neilmac
Spania
Local time: 01:57
din spaniolă în engleză
+ ...
| Hadn't thought about poetry etc | Mar 2, 2010 |
I don't do arty/lit stuff often but when I do, I don't use a TM or any CAT tools. It just seems natural not to...
| | | | Rolf Kern
Elveţia
Local time: 01:57
din engleză în germană
+ ...
In Memoriam
I wrote "other", because I do not know what this is all aboput. I am just translating, and this with great success.
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MikeTrans
Germania
Local time: 01:57
din italiană în germană
+ ...
| All those parrots in your document... | Mar 3, 2010 |
Hello,
this is for sure a good posting. I like TMs as a reference source, but I often don't like the parrot-like sentences you may produce when applying perfect of fuzzy matches.
In the final QA you should take those repetitions out and create some variety, thinking about the joy anyone should have when actually reading those documents.
Automatisation is great for the translator. But remember: documents are ment for the users who certainly welcome creativit... See more Hello,
this is for sure a good posting. I like TMs as a reference source, but I often don't like the parrot-like sentences you may produce when applying perfect of fuzzy matches.
In the final QA you should take those repetitions out and create some variety, thinking about the joy anyone should have when actually reading those documents.
Automatisation is great for the translator. But remember: documents are ment for the users who certainly welcome creativity and laugh about parrots.
Mike ▲ Collapse
| | | | TCN6YR
Japonia
Local time: 08:57
din rusă în japoneză
+ ...
I hardly ever use CAT tools, so "other" is my answer.
If a CAT tool is too "helpful", then a translator might improve his/her creativity slower than without. Experience is what builds a quality of work. The easier your work is, the less effect you get. The memory software might be an obstacle to foster creativeness.
[Edited at 2010-03-03 06:03 GMT]
| | | | Elena Carbonell
Ţările de Jos
Local time: 01:57
Membru (2007)
din engleză în spaniolă
+ ...
For that matter we could say that a computer hinders our creativity, that we actually should be translating on paper like the good old days. It's like a graphic artist, they can paint on canvas or on a computer. Many do it both ways. They do it in the computer, they try the colours there and then they paint it (do the drawing) on canvas (paper). Or they do it on paper, scan it and paint it in the computer.
A computer is a tool, a CAT tool, well is a tool. It's not intented as a substitute ... See more For that matter we could say that a computer hinders our creativity, that we actually should be translating on paper like the good old days. It's like a graphic artist, they can paint on canvas or on a computer. Many do it both ways. They do it in the computer, they try the colours there and then they paint it (do the drawing) on canvas (paper). Or they do it on paper, scan it and paint it in the computer.
A computer is a tool, a CAT tool, well is a tool. It's not intented as a substitute and if you use it wisely and know it well you can get the most of it.
1) As Jocelyn pointed out you can expand or shrink a segment. In my case when I translate from Dutch into Spanish I expand the segments a lot since in Spanish sentences tend to be longer than Dutch.
2) Consistency of terminology and slogans. This is not only for technical texts, it can also be applied to legal or marketing texts. Sometimes a company has a few mottos and once you break your head trying to think of a way to say it, you don't have to break your head again. Think of phrases like: We do it for you. Because we are here for you...etc. Also I have corrected many texts from fellow translators and I could immediately see whether they have used a CAT tool or not. The same term was translated in different ways every time and here I am not talking about synonyms, if you do that you get a poor text in the target language. This the lack of creativity José Henrique was mentioning when you translate a word the same way every time. I am talking about terms, that should be translated consistenly every time.
3) You never forget to translate a sentence. This could be applied to any kind of translation.
4) You get the same layout as the original so it's another thing you don't have to worry about.
So definitely no, it doesn't jeopardize your creativity.
[Edited at 2010-03-03 08:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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