| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | Moderators: what happens now? How is it proposed to recruit new moderators? Thread poster: Marie-Hélène Hayles
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| Thank you Henry | Mar 6, 2009 |
Henry D wrote:
I think Drew will make a posting at the proper time, Viktor, in a thread dedicated to the topic. I believe he wanted to contact Lia and a few others first.
Thank you, I look forward to the posting.
| | | | Can Altinbay 
Local time: 21:45
Japanese to English
+ ...
In memoriam | Only 20 or so? | Mar 6, 2009 |
The moderators list shows only language pair moderators, so I assume there are a few more tan are on it.
There are 279 slots and 87 moderators in all on this list.
I'd say "only" is not applicable here.
| | | | Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 21:45
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
| answer to Marie-Hélène | Mar 6, 2009 |
Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
Still off-topic, but changing the subject: we've heard from a lot of people who seem to be very hostile to the site management and supportive of the outgoing moderators, and I think from no one who has anything to say in defence of the site management. Is everyone's opinion really that negative? Are all the outgoing moderators that saintly? Clearly this is not the place (nor would it be appropriate in any case) to go into details, but I'm aware of several disputes between individual site members and individual monitors over the years - is no one of the opinion that this might be the right time for a "spring clean"?
Hi, Marie-Hélène.
Of course there have been disputes, but as far as I know they have usually been about a hidden posting and a request to edit, a squashed kudoz question, a reclassification from pro to non-pro, a warning or a block issued to a user or member's profile. These tasks were only one part of a moderator's role. It was the most unpleasant part for many of us. This part will remain. So my guess is that there will continue to be disputes.
The part which some of us considered most important, i.e. steering and contributing to site development, is what's going away. I don't remember any disputes between members and modz about issues that would fall in this category, e.g. I can't even imagine a member arguing with a moderator about a moderator's insisting on not sorting translators by rate in the directory.
Finally, is no one prepared to consider even for a moment that Henry & Co might actually be acting in good faith?
I don't know if that matters, to be honest. In any case I can't answer this question because there's a rule against it. http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/5#5
Maria
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Maria Karra wrote: Finally, is no one prepared to consider even for a moment that Henry & Co might actually be acting in good faith? I don't know if that matters, to be honest. In any case I can't answer this question because there's a rule against it. http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/5#5 Maria
slap on the wrist for me
| | | | | Why should the presence of a strong team of moderators exclude the community | Mar 6, 2009 |
Hi Jared,
Jared wrote:
Would you find it unproductive if that large group of people were composed of not just moderators?
No, I would not find it unproductive at all, obviously proz does. That group has not been enlarged, it has been dissolved. Now there is no group or team of qualified people discussing together . The whole community, i.e. thousands of single individuals can - just as before - express their opinion. Ex post supposedly. At times, maybe, ex ante.
Jared wrote:
Moderators have contributed to making the site what it is, their help has been immeasurable. But being a moderator is not a requirement for effecting change and improvements on the site; nor does being a moderator mean that your voice will not be heard.
Jared
BEFORE:
proz had very valid team of moderators ("that have contributed to making the site what it is, whose help has been immeasurable") (let us call it "A") and the community ("B"). Proz had (A + B)
AFTER:
proz has the community ( B )
I am not a large scale entrepreneur, so please explain the rationale:
(A + B) = B
If (A + B) worked very well, why reduce it to just B?
Why give up precious resources (please Riccardo forgive me for this corporatese ) if they are not costly (they are free), they are productive, even efficient. B did not complain for the presence of A. They were not in competition. So?
I am obviously missing out on something....
[Edited at 2009-03-06 23:15 GMT]
| | | | Angela Arnone
Local time: 03:45
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
| My thanks to Marie-Hélène too. | Mar 7, 2009 |
Given all the negative speculation bandied across the site, it's nice to see someone taking a positive approach!
Over the years many moderators have stepped down because they felt the site was no longer moving in the direction they had originally perceived.
Others have been asked to step down when it was thought that thay were longer atuned to site philosophy (do I get penalty points on that?).
I recall major ructions when the site defined its "No Politics" rule, which w... See more Given all the negative speculation bandied across the site, it's nice to see someone taking a positive approach!
Over the years many moderators have stepped down because they felt the site was no longer moving in the direction they had originally perceived.
Others have been asked to step down when it was thought that thay were longer atuned to site philosophy (do I get penalty points on that?).
I recall major ructions when the site defined its "No Politics" rule, which was heavily debated by mods and users alike, but which has proved to be a sensible and farsighted move to safeguard the site's actual language-related scope (whoops, more corporatese).
The site (I won't call it a community or a company) is driven to a great extent by the waves of new users, who bring their contributions and their demands.
I doubt very much that Henry and his staff are making things up as they go along. They are surely committed to keeping ProZ.com successful both for the users and for themselves.
Many of us are members of professional associations like ATA, AITI, CIoL. Do they work for free? No. They require a membership fee and they collect advertising revenue. Do they come in for the whacking many reserve for ProZ.com? Not as far as I can see.
So why should ProZ.com be different? Why shouldn't it be a good thing that Henry Dotterer makes a living from this site and - more importantly - provides legal, salaried employment for dozens of people? In these troubled times, roll on any business that can do that.
And anyone who is unhappy about it, whether it's a volunteer moderator, a paid staff member or a user, can always go elsewhere. Imitations abound.
I'm astonished that people are demanding to know why moderators are leaving. Surely that is personal? I'm in no doubt that if you write to ex-mods in private they will explain if they feel like it. Maybe they just don't want to post the reasons for a decision visible to any passing surfer. After all, these are human beings and they are making a life change, however virtual it may be, so why should they have to account for that in public? They are moderators - not the president of the UN!
And second-guessing is never a very productive activity.
Bear in mind that behind the scenes we have a community (now I'm using it) of countless languages, countless cultures and religions, countless linguistic abilities. How easy can it be to make that work? Personalities come into play in no small measure and I think ProZ.com has been more than a success at what it aimed to do given the endless range of humanity and demands gathered here.
Let's be honest, also, that for everyone voicing sorrow and upset at the folks leaving, there will be just as many who don't care or who may well be pleased to see a change in the line-up. For reasons I won't insult you all by spelling out.
I've done my stint at moderating. I've moved on from that but I have not moved on from this site.
Any attempts to disrupt the great human and professional services it has to offer will be met by solid resistance on my part and on the part of a large number of others.
Lastly, for those grieving the decline of "community spirit" ... well, isn't community spirit something forged by the community? We have to work and contribute for it to exist. It definitely doesn't pop out of top hats.
I'm still doing my bit to keep it going and so are plenty of others!
Before I stop boring you all to death, I'd like to say that all of us ex-mods can take a pat on the back for the contributions we've made, now sit back to take a well-earned rest, while the rest of you step into the kitchen and feel some heat.
Angela
[quote]Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
is no one prepared to consider even for a moment that Henry & Co might actually be acting in good faith?
[Edited at 2009-03-07 16:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Russell Jones
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:45
Italian to English
| Second thoughts | Mar 7, 2009 |
Angela, what you say is indisputably true and I am certainly not questioning Henry's good faith. Angioletta is also right to remind many of us that we would not have a career without ProZ.com.
However, you see things from a(n ex) moderator's perspective.
As an ex architect, I draw parallels with the success or otherwise of housing developments, based on hierarchies of public and private space.
To ordinary translators the moderators are a vital element in the hierarchy of the... See more Angela, what you say is indisputably true and I am certainly not questioning Henry's good faith. Angioletta is also right to remind many of us that we would not have a career without ProZ.com.
However, you see things from a(n ex) moderator's perspective.
As an ex architect, I draw parallels with the success or otherwise of housing developments, based on hierarchies of public and private space.
To ordinary translators the moderators are a vital element in the hierarchy of the site; they are fellow translators, in touch with the same issues as the rest of us but in closer contact with the decision makers, whether in Syracuse, La Plata or Kharkiv.
They may not be elected but they are certainly our representatives and, to my mind, restricting the role of Moderators is akin to a curb on democracy.
I readily admit that this site owes a huge debt of gratitude to the IT specialists and other staff, who have a highly developed customer service ethos - but they are not practising translators and there is not the same rapport with them as there always has been with moderators.
My fears are based not on this one event - key though it is - but on a succession of changes apparently aimed at addressing the interests of the corporate market and inevitably moving away from the idea of a self-help site for the translator community. ▲ Collapse
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| Third thoughts | Mar 8, 2009 |
Maria Karra wrote:
The part which some of us considered most important, i.e. steering and contributing to site development, is what's going away.
Russell Jones wrote:
To ordinary translators the moderators are a vital element in the hierarchy of the site; they are fellow translators, in touch with the same issues as the rest of us but in closer contact with the decision makers, whether in Syracuse, La Plata or Kharkiv.
They may not be elected but they are certainly our representatives and, to my mind, restricting the role of Moderators is akin to a curb on democracy.
I readily admit that this site owes a huge debt of gratitude to the IT specialists and other staff, who have a highly developed customer service ethos - but they are not practising translators and there is not the same rapport with them as there always has been with moderators.
My fears are based not on this one event - key though it is - but on a succession of changes apparently aimed at addressing the interests of the corporate market and inevitably moving away from the idea of a self-help site for the translator community.
Russell, you've articulated what's been on my mind for quite some time now. I'm an ex-moderator, a practicing translator and practicing woodworker, and I'm also a member of a couple of excellent websites for woodworkers. What these sites have in common is that it is immediately obvious that they are run by hands-on experts who share my passion for the craft, promote best practices, and have the craft and its practitioners at heart in everything they do, while at the same time running profitable businesses.
It so happens that management did a very good job selecting moderators years ago. Most of them are crusty pros who know the craft inside and out. They have been (and still are) in the trenches, translating, interpreting and providing quality management. The site had a valuable resource in them. Now they are voices in the crowd and one wonders - if it was difficult to channel the feedback of a hundred experts when they still filled the role of sounding board, how will the thousands of voices of members now be channeled.
I have given up hope that it will ever be obvious that this site has the interest of the profession of translation and its practitioners foremost at heart.
| | | | Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 03:45
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...
In memoriam | Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 21:45
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
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