| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | can you assure your customer fullness, correctness and completeness in the target language Thread poster: Brandis (X)
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Inga Jakobi 
Germany
Local time: 23:46
Member (2006)
Chinese to German
+ ...
| Check it out before taking the job | Oct 22, 2006 |
In case I get you right and the problem is that you accepted a job to a certain rate and then realised that it was too much work or too specific for you, I don't know, if there is a solution that keeps your integrity. Maybe it would have been better to ask for the files before accepting such a big job on a complicated subject. But as you have already accepted the job maybe you should explain the client that it is much more work as you expected and that you want a higher rate or can't do the job.... See more In case I get you right and the problem is that you accepted a job to a certain rate and then realised that it was too much work or too specific for you, I don't know, if there is a solution that keeps your integrity. Maybe it would have been better to ask for the files before accepting such a big job on a complicated subject. But as you have already accepted the job maybe you should explain the client that it is much more work as you expected and that you want a higher rate or can't do the job. But still, he would think it non-professional. Or you could search for someone to help you, but this would be quite difficult. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The "guessing" game | Oct 22, 2006 |
This is not the first time I have tried to guess what you are talking about. I read your postings because I like to help but I almost always find that I am not able to understand you. And it is not because of my English. Today, I realized that almost everyone has the same problem. The least I can say is that it is impossible to follow your ramblings and that you omit the coherence and the information needed to understand the fundamentals of your situations.
After reading the contri... See more This is not the first time I have tried to guess what you are talking about. I read your postings because I like to help but I almost always find that I am not able to understand you. And it is not because of my English. Today, I realized that almost everyone has the same problem. The least I can say is that it is impossible to follow your ramblings and that you omit the coherence and the information needed to understand the fundamentals of your situations.
After reading the contributions from all other colleagues I am going out on a limb here and assuming that what you mean is that:
-you never accepted the job;
-your client kept pestering you about a job that was impossible to do, and
-you found yourself forced to take some drastic action —like telling the customer to go do it himself,
because you were dedicating so much time to discuss the job with this client that other clients were being left behind. And then you were left wandering whether you had done the right thing.
In a nutshell. Hey, it is as good as anyone’s guess!
Well, if my guessing is right I would have presented arguments to the client strong enough to convince him that what he wanted was not possible and, certainly, I would have rejected a job for which I felt it was impossible to give the guarantees required by the client. But I would not have told him to "go do it himself" with some templates or whatever. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ivana UK
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:46
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
Brandis wrote:
Hi! even so, the question has been clearly stated. A customer comes with these 3 criteria to be fulfilled, so that a project is real, let us forget the money part. The criteria may be somewhat subjective, but translation is not fully a technical field of study that can be split fully into parts either, how to find the right sales argument to hold that customer. I hope I am more clear now.
Okay, so what you're looking for is a way of answering the customer's doubts (as per your message header, which I have reworded below):
Q. Do you fully master the target language and are you able to provide a correct translation?
The client is making a valid point. The client is not being awkward or difficult. He/she wants to ensure that they have the right person for the job.
After all, if you had written a technical document of say 80,000 words, you too would want to ensure that the translator has experience in the field (so they fully understand the source document) and that they are able to write confidently and with expertise in target language.
A. Only you can answer this question Brandis.
Your answer will depend on how competent you are in the target language (as opposed to how confident, which is another matter entirely) but more importantly, how competent you are in the subject matter.
If your are not aquainted with the subject matter, then you should be honest with the client and explain that it is not your area and you would not feel comfortable taking on such a project. After all, if you don't understand the subject matter, you can't honestly expect to provide an error-free, understandable translation.
I would certainly never dream of suggesting to a client that he translate the document himself! This is totally unprofessional and extremely rude.
If the rate is absurdly low, then you could highlight this to the client and propose a more suitable rate.
If, for whatever reason, you choose not to take on a project, you should explain why (ie. too much work involved for such a low rate) and suggest that the client find another translator.
Hope this is what you were looking for,
Ivana
[Edited at 2006-10-23 00:35]
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XX789 (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 23:46
English to Dutch
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| Me admire greatly such attitude and greatness of profeseenialsm | Oct 23, 2006 |
Moderators, I received a mail from you which states that forum attacks (on Brandis) are not allowed. However, the link you gave me does not mention anything about such rule.
Second, I wonder if there's a rule against original posters calling and harassing responders (yes, by telephone, using abusive language), because said responders wrote something the original poster didn't like?
If not, please make such rule. Thank you.
[Edited at 2006-10-23 08:33]
| | | | Fan Gao
Australia
Local time: 07:46
English to Chinese
+ ...
| A new forum just for Brandis:) | Oct 23, 2006 |
Angela Arnone wrote:
I'm afraid I find this thread out of place here and I am at a loss about where it should go.
I love reading posts from Brandis just for the sheer entertainment value. It always makes me smile how it usually takes a page of replies before anyone can even start to fathom what the real problem is:)
Maybe a new forum could be started in the foreign language section called Brandlish:)
As for the problem itself, I'll just repeat the advice I've given before to the many problems Brandis experiences and that is that maybe it's time to think about looking for a new occupation.
Best wishes,
Mark
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Brandis wrote:
Hi! was the question I had last week, the discussion went on for 4 days over a volume of about 800000 words, little money though for an end-customer, the expenditure will be written-off in form of advertising costs. I was getting tired and finally suggested a do-it-yourself model. What is your opinion. How would you go about it. Best Brandis
Hi Brandis,
how on earth are we supposed to give you our opinion when you don't give any worthwhile information on what has actually happened. If you are referring to another thread, then give the link - which one of your many forum threads do you mean?
Jill
| | | | Inga Jakobi
Germany
Local time: 23:46
Member (2006)
Chinese to German
+ ...
| Better be honest | Oct 23, 2006 |
Hi,
in case you don't feel capable of doing the job or you can't take all the work it would take for a low rate (that you accepted previously), I think it is still better to be honest to the client and tell him that you can't assure quality under such conditions, than delivering a bad translation, made in a rush and lacking of knowledge and/or search...
Inga
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XX789 (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 23:46
English to Dutch
+ ...
P.S. Mark from Chinese Concept, I've only read one posting of yours and I already like you
[Edited at 2006-10-23 07:05]
| | | | Yolande Haneder (X)
Local time: 23:46
German to French
+ ...
| don't be so harsh on brandis... | Oct 23, 2006 |
He asked for an opinion about a business practice and not about his english level.
I am happy I don't get any comment anymore about my (bad) english level but here is not the point.
I think there should be a forum about "outsourcers rambling" as compared to business issue. Being an outsourcer is much more complex than having to count the words on a PDF file or writing an invoice.
Outsourcers have to do with clients that:
1. Have no idea about the process of ... See more He asked for an opinion about a business practice and not about his english level.
I am happy I don't get any comment anymore about my (bad) english level but here is not the point.
I think there should be a forum about "outsourcers rambling" as compared to business issue. Being an outsourcer is much more complex than having to count the words on a PDF file or writing an invoice.
Outsourcers have to do with clients that:
1. Have no idea about the process of translating and seem to thing this is some kind of automatic process while the translator is sleeping (it is so easy, you could write 30 pages through the night, why not?)
2. They like to experiment on the newest available format, making a headache for the outsourcers knowing that the translators themselves know all but the newest formats. (Brandis, if you still want to know how to split xml files, maybe we could help you - last time markus said one should send translators to computer course since it is so straightforward for him and I am afraid most client also think like him we are knowing all geniuses)
3. They seem to think the more they are calling you and pushing you, the best chances they had (on that subject I had a client who called me 3 days in a row always trying to push me doing a translation for the next day which I at first refused, it didn't come to his mind that giving me 3 days would have made things easier for both sides)
4....
Outsourcers have to deal with translators who..
(I am sure you can complete, much like the opposite).
Lately there have been more and more rambling from outsourcers (like me too) and I think it would be nice to have our own forum to get help from others who really understand our problems as outsourcers themselves and not only from translators having no idea of the pressure of some big companies / developpement of the attitude of some big clients. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 23:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| As with most of your posts... | Oct 23, 2006 |
Brandis wrote:
Hi! was the question I had last week...
As with most of your posts, I can't figure out what you're saying or asking, because you write half sentences. Try writing full sentences, and use paragraphs to sort the elements of your argument. And do not use the subject line as if it were the first line of the body of the post.
| | | | XX789 (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 23:46
English to Dutch
+ ...
Yolande,
His English is critisized because he claims it's his mother tongue (on his profile page). Some people would say that if non-native clients of him fall for that, they have a huge problem. Disclaimer: of course I have a different opinion and strongly encourage this.
Some people would also call this a disgrace for our profession, but I will refrain from such direct attacks as it would be against forum rules. What apparently is allowed on Proz.com is posting a thr... See more Yolande,
His English is critisized because he claims it's his mother tongue (on his profile page). Some people would say that if non-native clients of him fall for that, they have a huge problem. Disclaimer: of course I have a different opinion and strongly encourage this.
Some people would also call this a disgrace for our profession, but I will refrain from such direct attacks as it would be against forum rules. What apparently is allowed on Proz.com is posting a thread and then call at least two negative responders (by telephone that is), threatening them and using abusive language, at least according to two PM's I have received.
But that is of course perfectly understandable behaviour and we should give Brandis the benefit of the doubt. Disclaimer: I mean this.
[Edited at 2006-10-23 09:04] ▲ Collapse
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| I can't take it any longer! | Oct 23, 2006 |
Will someone please answer the questions that have been nagging me since this thread started:
How many zeros make a one?
That is the truly profound question begging to be answered here. I don't think I'll be able to sleep until I know. So let's please do away with the suspense and let the cat out of the bag.
How can I keep my customers happy?
I would start by treating them with respect, i.e., not asking mathematicians strange math... See more Will someone please answer the questions that have been nagging me since this thread started:
How many zeros make a one?
That is the truly profound question begging to be answered here. I don't think I'll be able to sleep until I know. So let's please do away with the suspense and let the cat out of the bag.
How can I keep my customers happy?
I would start by treating them with respect, i.e., not asking mathematicians strange mathematical questions if all that customer wants is a translation. If you don't like the conditions offered, either negotiate new conditions or decline the assignment - it is that easy (in my book).
How many translators does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
It depends on the context.
Have a nice week!
[Edited at 2006-10-23 09:12] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yolande Haneder (X)
Local time: 23:46
German to French
+ ...
| Disgracing himself | Oct 23, 2006 |
Hi Loek,
I think Brandis is not making himself a favour the way he is explaining his relationship with direct clients but I can only compatize because I have been ages away from having such problems myself.
Brandis is the leader of a translator team. I give him then the benefit of the doubt that he may have some natives english speaker in his team.
Calling peoples name when they are criticizing you is however not a way to go. He is loosing even more time t... See more Hi Loek,
I think Brandis is not making himself a favour the way he is explaining his relationship with direct clients but I can only compatize because I have been ages away from having such problems myself.
Brandis is the leader of a translator team. I give him then the benefit of the doubt that he may have some natives english speaker in his team.
Calling peoples name when they are criticizing you is however not a way to go. He is loosing even more time the way he complained his client did. Either way he is not getting his answer by putting oil on fire.
Please remember before you write on forums: Direct clients are reading it too and I slowly get the feeling more than you would expect (even though they contact you directly and not through proz). That's quite a problem if you start complaining about the behaviour of direct client (for what I think the outsourcer forum should be private - this would avoid other outsourcers sending mass mails to very other possible agency to warn them and we could directly talk in a more professionnal way).
[Edited at 2006-10-23 09:23] ▲ Collapse
| | | | sylvie malich (X)
Germany
Local time: 23:46
German to English
| Since when isn't irony allowed? | Oct 23, 2006 |
Loek van Kooten wrote:
Second, I wonder if there's a rule against original posters calling and harassing responders (yes, by telephone, using abusive language), because said responders wrote something the original poster didn't like?
If not, please make such rule. Thank you.
As one whose humorously ironic post on a previous thread (started by Brandis) was deleted and sent a moderator's warning and as one who was subsequently harassed by said OP by telephone, I second your motion.
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