| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4] > | Suggestions: minimum rate, no multiple profiles Thread poster: A Hayes (X)
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A Hayes (X)
Australia
Local time: 05:02
I reckon it can... and, yes, without losing face.
First and foremost, I would like to thank ProZ for giving us the opportunity to express our opinions through a survey. Though IMO it would have made more business sense to include former Platinum members in this survey as well – as pointed out by many –, rather than having a separate one for them.
Now, having completed my survey, a few thoughts I’d like to share with everyone out there...
What would I ... See more I reckon it can... and, yes, without losing face.
First and foremost, I would like to thank ProZ for giving us the opportunity to express our opinions through a survey. Though IMO it would have made more business sense to include former Platinum members in this survey as well – as pointed out by many –, rather than having a separate one for them.
Now, having completed my survey, a few thoughts I’d like to share with everyone out there...
What would I most like to see changed...?
1. I would like ProZ to set a minimum rate for bids, regardless of language pair or specialisation, eg USD 0.09 per word (bids under the min. rate wouldn’t be allowed by the system)
Naturally, agencies posting jobs would be made aware of this (+ banner across the top of the jobs page).
With ProZ being so popular, something that simple would dramatically improve the current situation of many freelance translators worldwide. This would help our profession enormously while boosting ProZ sales, as it would attract more members – more professionals, I imagine.
Needles to say, taking such a stance would imply a shift in focus, with an emphasis on professional self-employed translators/interpreters.
2. I would like ProZ to make sure there are no members with multiple profiles.
3. [Had to delete it to be allowed to repost this]
A.
Lest we forget the Croc Hunter.
Crikey! What a ripper!
May you rest in peace, Steve
[Edited at 2006-09-08 13:42]
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2006-09-09 13:18] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kirill Semenov 
Ukraine
Local time: 22:02
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
| Offtopic: Feeling so sorry about Steve... | Sep 8, 2006 |
A Hayes wrote:
Lest we forget the Croc Hunter.
Crikey! What a ripper!
May you rest in peace, Steve
I love his and her wife's films so much... Dramatic, he was young. (
| | | | Atenea Acevedo (X)
Local time: 13:02
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Please rephrase | Sep 8, 2006 |
Dear A.,
I hope you can rephrase your third suggestion so that we can have an idea what it was about, without breaking rule number so and so.
I think you chose a fortunate title for this thread. It's been repeatedly stated that ProZ.com is a business, and after being in Buenos Aires for the Conference I couldn't agree more. Henry refers to ProZ.com as "the company," and we were every day told that "the company" is here to work for us, and that "the company" is very much... See more Dear A.,
I hope you can rephrase your third suggestion so that we can have an idea what it was about, without breaking rule number so and so.
I think you chose a fortunate title for this thread. It's been repeatedly stated that ProZ.com is a business, and after being in Buenos Aires for the Conference I couldn't agree more. Henry refers to ProZ.com as "the company," and we were every day told that "the company" is here to work for us, and that "the company" is very much interested in what we would like to see here (and what we don't like as well). Great.
Now, this is what I find odd. Private businesses usually have some sort of Claims/Complatins & Suggestions mechanism, and in western culture they always try to be transparent about it so as to please their customers in the best possible way, while trying to afford the least possible losses.
Second thing, and this was brought up in the Spanish forum, I haven't done any research to see if it's been discussed in English, maybe it isn't such a bad idea that moderators be paid for their work. Yes, we've heard about the "volunteer" character of their role and the benefits it brings, but actually it is free labour for a private business. If it were paid, there would be less moderators (are so many really necessary?) and their role would acquire a different (in my opinion, better) hue: paid work allows for transparency and accountability under a different light. I'm not saying that volunteer work cannot be related to transparency and accountability, I'm just saying that it operates differently.
So, basically, if this is a company, I believe it should behave more so. And I'm also saying it as one of the speakers at the Conference who would've liked to see some sort of material appreciation for her active participation. How much would it have affected ProZ.com profit to spare members who decided to defray their own expenses to make a presentation the price of a gala dinner or a powwow?
Cheers, A,
Another A. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 21:02
English to German
+ ...
| Volunteers vs. payment | Sep 8, 2006 |
Dear Atenea,
Please allow me to disagree with your suggestion.
Second thing, and this was brought up in the Spanish forum, I haven't done any research to see if it's been discussed in English, maybe it isn't such a bad idea that moderators be paid for their work. Yes, we've heard about the "volunteer" character of their role and the benefits it brings, but actually it is free labour for a private business. If it were paid, there would be less moderators (are so many really necessary?) and their role would acquire a different (in my opinion, better) hue: paid work allows for transparency and accountability under a different light. I'm not saying that volunteer work cannot be related to transparency and accountability, I'm just saying that it operates differently.
I don't see a contradiction between volunteer work and transparency.
That said, I am personally against a paid role for moderators. The fact that I don't get financial benefits doesn't mean I don't benefit from being active on ProZ.com - for me personally, the moderator role gives me a certain level of visibility in the community, from which I benefit in various ways (not only commercially, BTW).
On the other hand, being a volunteer means that I'm also (financially) independent from ProZ.com, which I consider important whenever my views differ from those of ProZ.com management, as well as in dealing with issues related to Jobs, Blue Board, etc.
Regarding the conference, it would have been a nice gesture to waive the conference fee for speakers, for example - but then, if you consider the cost involved in attending the conference, I wouldn't consider it decisive. I most certainly found it worthwhile.
Best regards,
Ralf
[Edited at 2006-09-08 14:38]
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Atenea Acevedo (X)
Local time: 13:02
English to Spanish
+ ...
Thanks for your comments, Ralf, and for being open to dialogue, I truly appreciate it.
My point on the Conference was exactly that, a nice gesture. I assume that "the cost involved in attending" was different for each one of us; but even those, like me, who were able and willing to pay for an airplane ticket, hotel accommodation and other expenses that come along with travelling, would have liked not to feel that we paid to make a presentation.
The Conference was quite... See more Thanks for your comments, Ralf, and for being open to dialogue, I truly appreciate it.
My point on the Conference was exactly that, a nice gesture. I assume that "the cost involved in attending" was different for each one of us; but even those, like me, who were able and willing to pay for an airplane ticket, hotel accommodation and other expenses that come along with travelling, would have liked not to feel that we paid to make a presentation.
The Conference was quite worthwhile to me as well, and I was more than happy to oblige Au's invitation to be a speaker, but then when I saw the business character of the company so clearly it didn't make any sense to me that there was no *nice gesture* towards our work.
Best,
Atenea ▲ Collapse
| | | | ZZZZZZ (X)
Local time: 21:02
German to English
| What about ... | Sep 8, 2006 |
What about feedback from past members who have decided to give up their memberships?
I think that would be very useful for determining any weak points.
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Reinicken wrote:
What about feedback from past members who have decided to give up their memberships?
I think that would be very useful for determining any weak points.
We will survey ex-members as well, but it is a different survey.
Our first concern is to know more about our current members in order to serve them better.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | Minimum rates and multiple profiles | Sep 8, 2006 |
A Hayes wrote:
1. I would like ProZ to set a minimum rate for bids, regardless of language pair or specialisation, eg USD 0.09 per word (bids under the min. rate wouldn’t be allowed by the system)
Please see http://www.proz.com/faq/jobs#jobs_minimum_rate
2. I would like ProZ to make sure there are no members with multiple profiles.
Rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/general/7#7 states:
7 One profile is allowed per person. Creating a new profile to bypass restrictions or gain advantages is prohibited. (However, it is acceptable to have one profile for yourself and another profile for your registered business.)
We have controls to detect multiple profiles and we take actions when we find situations of improper use.
Thanks for answering the survey, for posting your feedback and for supporting the site.
Regards,
Enrique
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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 15:02
| So many reflections come to mind... | Sep 8, 2006 |
Alejandra,
Thanks for opening this thread. As a result of Proz.com last survey, I was thinking of opening a very similar one, to see if we could get more insight from both members and non members as to what they would like to see changed in the site (since it is unlikely we will get to read their suggestions even after the results are published).
I completed the survey with two suggestions very similar to yours (I would also like you to rephrase the third one, so that we can c... See more Alejandra,
Thanks for opening this thread. As a result of Proz.com last survey, I was thinking of opening a very similar one, to see if we could get more insight from both members and non members as to what they would like to see changed in the site (since it is unlikely we will get to read their suggestions even after the results are published).
I completed the survey with two suggestions very similar to yours (I would also like you to rephrase the third one, so that we can comment on it).
My first suggestion was that there be no mention of rates in job postings. I know that, as a US-based business, Proz.com cannot fix a minimum rate; thus, I would prefer not to see any rates at all, or comments such as "we will only consider the cheapest offers", or anything that makes the site look like a dumping place where outsourcers can get translations for peanuts. I think this is very detrimental to the site. Let outsourcers and translators come to a price arrangement in private.
My second suggestion was to improve the quality of the Kudoz section. This could be done in many ways, one of which would be to improve the verification of identities and credentials, and to avoid empty profiles (we do not need a whole life story, but certainly a few basic details, more than what can be seen now in a lot of emply profiles). The implementation of some sort of mechanism(s) so that we do not have "mr x", "logged off", posting five song sentences every day for translation into Spanish. Of course we can ignore those questions, but I think their mere presence is detrimental to the site, not to mention the glossaries!
My third suggestion had to do with the freedom of speech at the forums, and is somewhat related to what Atenea and Ralf wrote. I think both of them have a point. Even though there are many great moderators, I find that some of them tend to mix their personal opinions with their moderating duties, and sometimes make life a bit difficult for forum participants. If moderating was a paid job, it would be very easy to request these moderators to stick to their roles, and leave their opinions out. On the other hand, I also understand Ralf's point that being a "voluntary", rather than a "paid" duty, it gives him all the freedom in the world to voice his dissent whenever he wishes to do so.
The problem, as I see it, is what Atenea points out: If Proz.com is turning into a "company" rather than a "community", I believe it will have to behave more and more in an entreprenurial way which would include, among many other things, at least paying for travel expenses of speakers invited to their paying events.
It seems to me that, in the long run, this attitude of trying to be a "company" and a "community", as well as a site for "professionals" and for "everybody" at the same time will produce more dissatisfaction and problems, than revenues and happy customers.
The above is what I think, but I would love to read other colleagues on the matter. And last but not least, I hope that by saying all this I am not hijacking Alejandra's thread!!
[Edited at 2006-09-08 15:51] ▲ Collapse
| | | | ZZZZZZ (X)
Local time: 21:02
German to English
| We'll see .... | Sep 8, 2006 |
Enrique wrote:
We will survey ex-members as well, but it is a different survey.
I understand that ex-members are breathlessly awaiting that.
LOL
Probably as in the case of any "company" - things have been swept under the carpet (i.e. with the instant banning of a member) - so I hope that your statement is true.
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 21:02
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | Forced rates? | Sep 8, 2006 |
I am very glad if I see the rate posted in the job offer. That way, if the offered rate is way below what I accept, I can skip the bid which saves me a lot of time.
If the minimal rate is introduced, the bidders would simply omit that crucial bit of information, so that the truth might come out only after several exchanges of emails, samples and test pieces. This would result in a total waste of my most precious resource - time.
With the minimal rate the low-paid jobs w... See more I am very glad if I see the rate posted in the job offer. That way, if the offered rate is way below what I accept, I can skip the bid which saves me a lot of time.
If the minimal rate is introduced, the bidders would simply omit that crucial bit of information, so that the truth might come out only after several exchanges of emails, samples and test pieces. This would result in a total waste of my most precious resource - time.
With the minimal rate the low-paid jobs will simply be disguised (we wrote Euros? We meant dollars! Canadian, as a matter of fact!). For me, this would make it even more troublesome to weed them out. And if it really works as you expect, i.e. those clients go away from ProZ, then the site's traffic would go down, as well as translators' visibility and marketability. If they go to another site, in large numbers, then ProZ, as "the company", would be badly hurt, too.
Remember, there will always be low-paid jobs. This is because there are clients who are not seeking the best quality, but the what-we-can-afford quality. And there will always be translators who will accept their terms, for a variety of reasons. Suggesting that ProZ minimal rates "would dramatically improve the current situation of many freelance translators worldwide" is, I am afraid, a little bit naive... Somehow I cannot imagine all those end clients, totally unaware of ProZ or maybe even the inner workings of the whole translation business, who suddenly decide to pay more for translations (i.e. making less money or rasing their own prices) because an Internet site introduced minimal rates in their bidding! Rates are (mostly) decided by economic laws, not by administrative decisions. With an industry as unregulated as translations it will be this way.
For that reason I suggest the exact opposite of Rosa's suggestion: to force rates in bids, in form of a range (minimum rate and maximum rate). Then the translators might apply a dashboard-like filter which would hide those jobs which are below (or above ) the translator's range of interest. Those who are always furious at "preposterous" rates will have less reasons to get angry, and those, like me, who are totally uninterested about what happens at that other end of the market, might focus on those jobs which are meant for us. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 15:02
English to Spanish
+ ...
| In a handbasket | Sep 8, 2006 |
A Hayes wrote:
I reckon it can... and, yes, without losing face.
I think so too. It would be great if we received a straight answer to that (i.e. yes, the company is willing to do it; no, we will not do it).
1. I'm with Rosa Maria here. No mention of rates, period. If this is really a non-bidding scheme place, then service providers should be the ones quoting their own rates (high, low, whatever), not the other way around.
2. On this point, I'm not sure filling out profiles would be of great help. Plus, I've read really smart and witty remarks from people who have obviously made up their info. Those are worth several hundred real-but-lame profiles afaik. Then again, I don't do Kudoz, and maybe that's where most of the damage is done.
--
Dyran
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| some comments | Sep 8, 2006 |
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:
The problem, as I see it, is what Atenea points out: If Proz.com is turning into a "company" rather than a "community", I believe it will have to behave more and more in an entreprenurial way which would include, among many other things, at least paying for travel expenses of speakers invited to their paying events.
It seems to me that, in the long run, this attitude of trying to be a "company" and a "community", as well as a site for "professionals" and for "everybody" at the same time will produce more dissatisfaction and problems, than revenues and happy customers.
Dear Rosa,
I couldn´t agree more with everything you mentioned. The issues you bring up are what concern most of us. Rates, Kudoz...
If the slogan reads "the translators workplace", shouldn´t its focus really be helping translators? I mean, the "community of professionals" above all? I know it must be extremely difficult to satisfy so many customers.
I have also completed the survey and I appreciate it and the willingness to improve. However, so far, proz.com has not been a u-turn for me.
Dear Atenea,
It is a shame that you were not paid for your speech. I enjoyed it very very much. I wish the money I (and everybody) invested in the conference had been used to pay speakers because most were absolutely brilliant (like you) and what made the conference worthy.
(Ralf´s speech was also great.)
Kind regards to all of you,
Majo
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 15:02
English to Spanish
+ ...
| There's no bidding in ProZ | Sep 8, 2006 |
Jabberwock wrote:
If the minimal rate is introduced, the bidders would simply omit that crucial bit of information, so that the truth might come out only after several exchanges of emails, samples and test pieces.
I'm curious to know why this would be so.
Whenever I answer a request for availability, I send my rates along with any other relevant information (i.e. experience in the subject area).
If (and only if) they accept my rates, then we can move on to samples, references, etc.
That way everyone knows from the start what to expect, and it only takes a few seconds.
--
Dyran
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 22:02
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
on where you mean ProZ should make U-turn.
Dyran Altenburg wrote:
1. I'm with Rosa Maria here. No mention of rates, period. If this is really a non-bidding scheme place, then service providers should be the ones quoting their own rates (high, low, whatever), not the other way around.
Here I fully agree with Jabberwock. Seeing the rates saves my time- I do not bother with the offer, if the rate offered is 1/3 or 1/2 of my minimum rates.
2. On this point, I'm not sure filling out profiles would be of great help. Plus, I've read really smart and witty remarks from people who have obviously made up their info. Those are worth several hundred real-but-lame profiles afaik. Then again, I don't do Kudoz, and maybe that's where most of the damage is done.
So you think fake profiles should be allowed, provided they are witty enough? In my capacity of an outsourcer I can say I'm interested in a real existence of the service provider and truthfulness of data provided, not his wittiness.
Uldis
[Rediģēts plkst. 2006-09-08 19:21]
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