| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | Should the KudoZ points system be abolished? Thread poster: XXXphxxx (X)
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questions answered : questions asked might be good.
Gudrun
| | | | Yaotl Altan 
Mexico
Local time: 00:59
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
questions answered : questions asked might be good.
Gudrun
Right now, the total number of Kudoz is the actual pattern used to sort translators, but I think Proz should implement another pattern, just the ratio you have stated, Gudrun.
Right now, focus is on quantity, but accuracy is important too.
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A answers 30 questions during a month and, if he gets 10 correct answer, he collects (4 Kudoz/correct answer) 40 Kudoz. 10/30 = 0.3 * 100 = 30%
B answers just 5 questions in that month. Askers consider he deserves Kudoz in 4 out of those 5 cases. B collects just 16 Kudoz. 4/5 = 80%
I think this ratio must receive more value, because it will help us to have better answers. Translators lists will look very different according to this ratio.
[Modifié le 2013-02-14 15:36 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:59
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| The problem with a ratio | Feb 14, 2013 |
Yaotl Altan wrote:
A answers 30 questions during a month and, if he gets 10 correct answer, he collects (4 Kudoz/correct answer) 40 Kudoz. 10/30 = 0.3 * 100 = 30%
B answers just 5 questions in that month. Askers consider he deserves Kudoz in 4 out of those 5 cases. B collects just 16 Kudoz. 4/5 = 80%
So, if you give a good answer in 100% of cases, but your answer is chosen as the "most helpful answer" in only half of those cases (because there are scores of other answerers and some of them may answered earlier than you or may have written a more extensive answer), then your ratio is 50%, is that right? If that is so, then the ratio is not a ratio of accuracy but of luck. Remember, KudoZ is awarded only to the winning answerer.
[Edited at 2013-02-14 16:06 GMT]
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 08:59
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 07:59
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
Remember, KudoZ is awarded only to the winning answerer.
In the FIGS pairs, which are presumably the most active, there are often many answers, so I imagine we would have lower ratios than less active pairs. If you take more than a few minutes to answer, you often only have the option of agreeing with an already recorded answer; if you give an alternative, equally correct, answer, both answerers then have only a 50% chance of being chosen.
This ratio information is already in our profiles, although only accessible to paying members, I believe, and we can only see our own statistics. I think these statistics could usefully be made public, but I don't see they really have any relevance outside of the language pair. You'd just be going to another skewed method of ranking.
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 00:59
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
OK, then what do you propose to optimize the ranking system?
| | | | | And now some math ... | Feb 14, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
So, if you give a good answer in 100% of cases, but your answer is chosen as the "most helpful answer" in only half of those cases (because there are scores of other answerers and some of them may answered earlier than you or may have written a more extensive answer), then your ratio is 50%, is that right? If that is so, then the ratio is not a ratio of accuracy but of luck. Remember, KudoZ is awarded only to the winning answerer.
Kirill Semenov wrote:
Next, let's see how the ratio behaves depending on the activity of a person. For the sake of simplicity let's assume that each won answer always gives 4 points.
Imagine a not very active proZ member who has 160 points and 100 answers. The ratio is 1.600, or 40%. One more graded answer gives 164/101 = 1.624, or 40.594 %. Accordingly, a lost answer gives 160/101 = 1.584, or 39.604 %. On this level of kudoZ points the difference looks like noticeable enough.
Now, another member has 1600 points and 1000 answers (the same 40%). One more won answer gives 1604/1001 = 1.6024, or 40.06%.
A lost question results in 1600/1001 = 1.598, or 39.96%.
I don't know what you think but I suppose that 0.05% is quite a small change.
What am I trying to show is that in the long run the ratio changes very slow. Basically, it tends to some final number which may be called "a true reliability".
http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/24865-add_a_kudoz_confidence_hit_rating_field_to_each_user_profile_t-page4.html
Further reading
Henry Dotterer wrote:
This is a new feature we will be rolling out. I got ahead of myself writing the FAQs before working out all the bugs.
My advice to all for now is to make sure your KudoZ answers are as accurate as possible, and when you are not sure, use the \"confidence meter\" to say so. This will give you a high \"reliability rating\", which will help you in placement throughout the site, including KudoZ, jobs, etc.
http://www.proz.com/topic/3426
http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/24865-add_a_kudoz_confidence_hit_rating_field_to_each_user_profile_t.html
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Yaotl Altan wrote:
OK, then what do you propose to optimize the ranking system?
Abolish it and rotate it randomly...
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Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 00:59
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| FIFA and cars. | Feb 14, 2013 |
Well, if FIFA decides that too, we'll see today Spain as the best team and March will be San Marino's month
Then, if someone has killed while driving, are we ready to stop car production worldwide forever?
| | | | | Why don't we just award translation jobs randomly | Feb 14, 2013 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Abolish it and rotate it randomly...
Hey, searching for translators using multiple criteria is so much hassle. When a customer comes to Proz.com to place a translation job, they could be overwhelmed! Let's ease their task and just award the job to a random freelancer in the appropriate translation pair. No more skewed rankings!
| | | | FoundInTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:59
German to English
+ ...
It also encourages the mindset that someone is only replying for points rather than being generally helpful. Kudoz can be and often is a nasty place.
Patrick
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:59
Hebrew to English
| The ratio is relevant.... | Feb 14, 2013 |
And it should be a filter in the directories if nothing else. There was an individual referred to earlier on in the thread who shall remain nameless. On the face of it, his KudoZ points seem quite impressive, until you realise his ratio is abysmal.
If you throw darts at a dartboard continuously, you will eventually hit the bull's-eye, no matter how bad your aim.
There is indeed an element of "luck" in KudoZ (hence the most clueless and atrocious of abusers garne... See more And it should be a filter in the directories if nothing else. There was an individual referred to earlier on in the thread who shall remain nameless. On the face of it, his KudoZ points seem quite impressive, until you realise his ratio is abysmal.
If you throw darts at a dartboard continuously, you will eventually hit the bull's-eye, no matter how bad your aim.
There is indeed an element of "luck" in KudoZ (hence the most clueless and atrocious of abusers garnering points), but the ratios helps to unmask that luck. If you come across someone with an extremely high acceptance rate, then chances are they are quite talented (or very very very lucky). You could suspend your disbelief and believe the latter, but KudoZ is quite a dog-eat-dog environment and I've never seen anyone that lucky. ▲ Collapse
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Mikhail Kropotov wrote: Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Abolish it and rotate it randomly... Hey, searching for translators using multiple criteria is so much hassle. When a customer comes to Proz.com to place a translation job, they could be overwhelmed! Let's ease their task and just award the job to a random freelancer in the appropriate translation pair. No more skewed rankings!
if you want to find the right translator, you will need to use multiple search criteria. This way, the list will be much shorter and the search will be easier. Having lots of points doesn't guarantee that you are a good translator, maybe just that you are good with Google...
I'm actually ranked 31st in the all time Italian Kudoz point leaders board, so this is coming from someone who, in theory, has a lot to lose and little to gain from the introduction of a new system.
Edited to add "Italian" to the al time Kudoz point leaders board... I'm not 31st in the absolute all time one!
[Edited at 2013-02-15 12:54 GMT]
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Why?
1) Questions with points are not only answered faster but they are answered more precisely.
2) Because for people who respect ethics, have morals and are professional and I do not mean Kudoz or site rules here but beyond, Kudoz is a great tool.
Actually I would ban a non-ethical Kudoz tactic. When somebody waits till real professionals answer a question and then he/she copies and pastes others' answers or copies and pastes the answers from additionally given peer ... See more Why?
1) Questions with points are not only answered faster but they are answered more precisely.
2) Because for people who respect ethics, have morals and are professional and I do not mean Kudoz or site rules here but beyond, Kudoz is a great tool.
Actually I would ban a non-ethical Kudoz tactic. When somebody waits till real professionals answer a question and then he/she copies and pastes others' answers or copies and pastes the answers from additionally given peer comments. With this tactic they are getting more and more points till they can add that field as a "specialization". This way points will mean nothing. If we allow this it means fooling clients who search for translators, because "copy and paste" Kudoz answerers won't have the opportunity to copy when it comes to real jobs.
[Edited at 2013-02-22 14:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 03:59
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| That would be the end of KudoZ | Feb 26, 2014 |
If this happens, it will be the end of KudoZ.
The vast majority of the entries that exist in the glossaries today are a result of the point awarding system. If it didn't exist, the glossaries would certainly have less than 5% of the entries it has today.
It's quite unfortunate that many people face it as a game and play it like competitors, when the purpose is to help each other out.
However, think about human nature: most people won't make a move if there ... See more If this happens, it will be the end of KudoZ.
The vast majority of the entries that exist in the glossaries today are a result of the point awarding system. If it didn't exist, the glossaries would certainly have less than 5% of the entries it has today.
It's quite unfortunate that many people face it as a game and play it like competitors, when the purpose is to help each other out.
However, think about human nature: most people won't make a move if there is no compensation behind it. Charity is very nice, but it's a gift of very few people. ▲ Collapse
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