| Stron w wątku: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | Should the KudoZ points system be abolished? Autor wątku: XXXphxxx (X)
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| I saw what you described | Mar 10, 2014 |
I also want to abolish the Kudoz system even though I have some points here.
There is quite a handful of underhanded tricks in my pair right now and the askers just add the glossary without consideration. There are some glossary that I feel unfit but still be added in the system.
I wonder that beside the points given to the answerers, would the answerers benefit from the glossary added in the system in terms of marketing themselves.
I suggest the we dont c... See more I also want to abolish the Kudoz system even though I have some points here.
There is quite a handful of underhanded tricks in my pair right now and the askers just add the glossary without consideration. There are some glossary that I feel unfit but still be added in the system.
I wonder that beside the points given to the answerers, would the answerers benefit from the glossary added in the system in terms of marketing themselves.
I suggest the we dont close all the Kudoz grading system but only in the language pair that has too many problems (reports on foul play) in a period of time (say 6 months). We can still ask and answer questions but can't grade it so we can see who are really selfless enough to help their colleagues.
Mario Freitas wrote:
If this happens, it will be the end of KudoZ.
The vast majority of the entries that exist in the glossaries today are a result of the point awarding system. If it didn't exist, the glossaries would certainly have less than 5% of the entries it has today.
It's quite unfortunate that many people face it as a game and play it like competitors, when the purpose is to help each other out.
However, think about human nature: most people won't make a move if there is no compensation behind it. Charity is very nice, but it's a gift of very few people.
[Edited at 2014-03-10 10:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us 
USA
Local time: 16:56
Członek ProZ.com
od 2005
angielski > chiński
+ ...
| Any thought about abolishing the Kudoz system | Mar 10, 2014 |
Little Woods wrote: I also want to abolish the Kudoz system even though I have some points here. There is quite a handful of underhanded tricks in my pair right now and the askers just add the glossary without consideration. There are some glossary that I feel unfit but still be added in the system. I wonder that beside the points given to the answerers, would the answerers benefit from the glossary added in the system in terms of marketing themselves. I suggest the we dont close all the Kudoz grading system but only in the language pair that has too many problems (reports on foul play) in a period of time (say 6 months). We can still ask and answer questions but can't grade it so we can see who are really selfless enought to help their colleagues. Mario Freitas wrote:
If this happens, it will be the end of KudoZ.
The vast majority of the entries that exist in the glossaries today are a result of the point awarding system. If it didn't exist, the glossaries would certainly have less than 5% of the entries it has today.
It's quite unfortunate that many people face it as a game and play it like competitors, when the purpose is to help each other out.
However, think about human nature: most people won't make a move if there is no compensation behind it. Charity is very nice, but it's a gift of very few people.
would damage the image of the site as a whole. It is a system that has attracted many users and kept them loyal to the site. It is one of the most important features that have kept Proz.com unique and competitive.
I cannot imagine what would happen if the rewarding system on Kudoz is removed. Possible outcomes: 1) No one will care about it any more; 2) No one will answer questions seriously. 3) Some would deliberately give wrong answers to make fun of it. 4) Fewer and fewer people would come here to ask questions, leading to a much reduced traffic.
The harm of removing the Kudoz system would be 1000 times higher than its benefit, if there would be benefit at all.
[Edited at 2014-03-10 09:39 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
USA
Local time: 16:56
Członek ProZ.com
od 2005
angielski > chiński
+ ...
| about "helping others" | Mar 10, 2014 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL MITI wrote:
helping others?
It is in essence not about "helping others". At least it is not only related to helping others. Answering questions is a mutual benefit process.
Even if it is merely about helping others, there should always be reasons behind it. Getting rewarded is one of them; getting exposed to the community is another. And there could be many more. Don't expect Kudoz to operate well if you expect Kudoz is merely for helping others.
To me this is common sense.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 21:56
portugalski > angielski
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | If the points system was abolished | Mar 10, 2014 |
There would be a slim chance of all the hundreds of excellent translators who have abandoned the site in their droves returning. Failing that, the site might at least be able to retain any high calibre translators left. Terminology queries are being answered in private forums all over the place, with no points systems and by people who abandoned Kudoz a long time ago. Serial askers or those consistently translating documents beyond their level/area of expertise eventually get ignored in these en... See more There would be a slim chance of all the hundreds of excellent translators who have abandoned the site in their droves returning. Failing that, the site might at least be able to retain any high calibre translators left. Terminology queries are being answered in private forums all over the place, with no points systems and by people who abandoned Kudoz a long time ago. Serial askers or those consistently translating documents beyond their level/area of expertise eventually get ignored in these environments and that, ultimately, has to be good. These are members’ only forums so those who answer have nothing to benefit from, in terms of visibility vis-à-vis potential outsourcers. For the cynics out there, believe me, there are plenty of altruistic translators around.
The model that has been set up here will eventually implode. As we’ve already mentioned, one of the main benefits in answering Kudoz questions is to climb the ranks in the directory and increase one's visibility. However, newcomers to the site haven't a chance in hell of ever catching up with those who have been accumulating points for years. Quite soon they'll realise there’s no point even trying. ▲ Collapse
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| Newcomers do have a chance | Mar 10, 2014 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL MITI wrote:
However, newcomers to the site haven't a chance in hell of ever catching up with those who have been accumulating points for years. Quite soon they'll realise there’s no point even trying.
While people may be discouraged from entering the 'competition,' it's not true that they cannot catch up. I have seen several qualified newcomers in the English-Russian pair climb the ranks very, very quickly. For example, one of them reached the Overall Top 5 in less than a year and within two years easily occupied the number 2 spot where he still is now. (I don't know quite how competitive English-Russian is compared with top pairs like English-Spanish, but it is certainly no walk in the park. Right now I'm number 10 overall with 5090 points, and I've been active on Kudoz for nearly 10 years.)
[Edited at 2014-03-10 16:33 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
USA
Local time: 16:56
Członek ProZ.com
od 2005
angielski > chiński
+ ...
| your opinions are seconded. | Mar 10, 2014 |
Mikhail Kropotov wrote: Lisa Simpson, MCIL MITI wrote:
However, newcomers to the site haven't a chance in hell of ever catching up with those who have been accumulating points for years. Quite soon they'll realise there’s no point even trying.
While people may be discouraged from entering the 'competition,' it's not true that they cannot catch up. I have seen several qualified newcomers in the English-Russian pair climb the ranks very, very quickly. [Edited at 2014-03-10 16:33 GMT]
That's right. About 10 newcomers made their way to the first page of the directory in the English-Chinese pair in less than 6 months.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 21:56
portugalski > angielski
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT
Apologies, you may both well be right. As you can see from my profile, I am not a Kudoz player and I'm afraid I remain unconvinced that the effort involved in answering questions all day to climb the ranks - in the process supporting some rather dubious practices in the industry - is rewarded by any decent jobs, judging from the calibre of the majority of the outsourcers that use this site to find translators.
| | | | | Why can't we just... | Mar 11, 2014 |
...do a trial experiment? Eliminate KudoZ points for three months and see what happens?
People answered questions for years on Compuserve's FLEFO forum with no KudoZ points.
As far as programming, all you have to do is make all questions automatically NO POINTS questions for three months. If something goes wrong or it doesn't work out, it can be easily reversed.
[Edited at 2014-03-11 19:00 GMT]
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Enrique Cavalitto
Argentyna
Local time: 17:56
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006
angielski > hiszpański
| How many questions? | Mar 11, 2014 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
...do a trial experiment? Eliminate KudoZ points for three months and see what happens?
People answered questions for years on Compuserve's FLEFO forum with no KudoZ points.
As far as programming, all you have to do is make all questions automatically NO POINTS questions for three months. If something goes wrong or it doesn't work out, it can be easily reverted.
Hi Jeff,
Do you have a ballpark idea of how many questions were asked in the FLEFO forum?
How would this number compare with 3,174,261 translation questions asked?
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | The site's attitude | Mar 11, 2014 |
Enrique's reply sums up the site's view perfectly.
Proz.com has absolutely no interest in abolishing KudoZ points. End of story.
| | | | | Maybe that's because... | Mar 11, 2014 |
...KudoZ is a system that works, and no serious case has ever been made to abolish it?
Fiona Peterson wrote:
Enrique's reply sums up the site's view perfectly.
Proz.com has absolutely no interest in abolishing KudoZ points. End of story.
Disclaimer: I'm an independent translator not associated with ProZ.com management.
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Argentyna
Local time: 17:56
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006
angielski > hiszpański
| This is correct | Mar 11, 2014 |
Fiona Peterson wrote:
Proz.com has absolutely no interest in abolishing KudoZ points.
This is correct.
Regards,
Enrique
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| No perfect system | Mar 11, 2014 |
KudoZ has been of great service to me in the past, and continues to be so.
I still contribute to, and gain from, the system.
However I feel strongly that this is not an excuse for allowing various types of poor behaviour (not appropriate on a professional site, IMHO) to continue.
I think abolishing the points system would eliminate certain problems, while creating others.
There is no such thing as a perfect system. Perhaps the best approach is... See more KudoZ has been of great service to me in the past, and continues to be so.
I still contribute to, and gain from, the system.
However I feel strongly that this is not an excuse for allowing various types of poor behaviour (not appropriate on a professional site, IMHO) to continue.
I think abolishing the points system would eliminate certain problems, while creating others.
There is no such thing as a perfect system. Perhaps the best approach is to take KudoZ with a grain of salt, and a large G&T when things get too heavy. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | That's a feature, not a bug | Mar 11, 2014 |
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Do you have a ballpark idea of how many questions were asked in the FLEFO forum?
How would this number compare with 3,174,261 translation questions asked?
Regards,
Enrique
Much fewer than the 3 million questions asked here, for sure... bearing in mind that FLEFO was at its most active before Compuserve was taken over by AOL (in fact the glory days of FLEFO were before there was the World Wide Web or graphical browsers).
On the other hand, the quality of the answers was several orders of magnitude higher than what you get here.
Quality over quantity.
The fact that there were fewer answers is a feature, not a bug.
| | | | Jan Sundström
Szwecja
Local time: 22:56
angielski > szwedzki
+ ...
| What do you really know abt LSP usage of Proz? | Mar 12, 2014 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL MITI wrote:
...I remain unconvinced that the effort involved in answering questions all day to climb the ranks - in the process supporting some rather dubious practices in the industry - is rewarded by any decent jobs, judging from the calibre of the majority of the outsourcers that use this site to find translators.
As a PM for an outsourcer with (what I'd like to believe) high business standards, I disagree.
Lisa, what do you _really_ know about how LSPs are using the Proz directory??? If you're judging by the bottom feeders posting 0.03 USD jobs, you don't get the full picture.
Serious/better paying LSPs don't post jobs in public, because they don't want the "cheapest offer".
Typically, I rely a lot on the kudoz ranking when selecting translators, but I handpick and invite those translators personally, not through job postings. Often after comparing their profile with ATA/ITI/SFÖ and corresponding sites.
You could hang around on Proz for many years and have no clue about this, because our recruitment practice is not something we advertise. And if you have zero or just a few kudoz points, chances are slim that you've been approached by a better-known LSP this way.
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