It is there where I become puzzled
თემის ავტორი: Jean-Pierre Coeurnelle
Jean-Pierre Coeurnelle
Jean-Pierre Coeurnelle
Local time: 05:51
ინგლისური -> ფრანგული
+ ...
May 18, 2005

I have just read the following:
"it's in the romantic arena where most problems are caused by Anglo-American misunderstanding" (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2005/05/17/ftusa17.xml).
This is not the first time I come across this structure "it is ... where".
As a French-speaking person I would have said and written "it i
... See more
I have just read the following:
"it's in the romantic arena where most problems are caused by Anglo-American misunderstanding" (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2005/05/17/ftusa17.xml).
This is not the first time I come across this structure "it is ... where".
As a French-speaking person I would have said and written "it is ... that".
Are both structures correct? Is the structure with "where" perhaps influenced by Spanish?
Collapse


 
Peter Linton (X)
Peter Linton (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:51
შვედური -> ინგლისური
+ ...
OK May 18, 2005

I think it is OK, because of "arena" - referring back to a sort of geographical location. In this context, I would also say "where", not "that", but you are right, "that" is grammaticallly more correct.

 
Henry Hinds
Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 21:51
ინგლისური -> ესპანური
+ ...
სამახსოვროში
Correct May 18, 2005

As a speaker of US English and Mexican Spanish, I agree that "where" is appropriate because it refers to an imagined location. In Spanish the same device is also common, but I do not know whether this is due to one language having influenced the other.

 
Jeff Allen
Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
საფრანგეთი
Local time: 05:51
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
yes, OK May 18, 2005

I'm a native speaker of US English. This syntactic structure sounds fine to me. No time right now to do an analysis and say why it is that way.
Note that it is the same structure in French.

Jeff


 
Jean-Pierre Coeurnelle
Jean-Pierre Coeurnelle
Local time: 05:51
ინგლისური -> ფრანგული
+ ...
თემის ავტორი
C'est là que je ne suis plus d'accord ;-) May 19, 2005

As a native French speaker I would not say the emphasis strucure is the same in French, except perhaps in rare and rather archaic constructions.
Grevisse (13th edition, § 447, p. 696) mentions e.g. as an older but surviving structure: "C'est votre coeur où j'aspire (Henri BOSCO, _Balesta_, p. 293)". I think maybe an example with "où" followed by a litteral location instead of a figurative one would be considered less "standard", though I cannot really say, as I would have described this
... See more
As a native French speaker I would not say the emphasis strucure is the same in French, except perhaps in rare and rather archaic constructions.
Grevisse (13th edition, § 447, p. 696) mentions e.g. as an older but surviving structure: "C'est votre coeur où j'aspire (Henri BOSCO, _Balesta_, p. 293)". I think maybe an example with "où" followed by a litteral location instead of a figurative one would be considered less "standard", though I cannot really say, as I would have described this example as non-standard anyway.
Otherwise, the standard structure is "c'est ... que/qui". A more criticized structure is "c'est ... dont". You do hear sentences like "C'est là où je vais", but these are limited to a few expressions and are definitely not considered as standard French. Of course the construction "c'est la maison où je vis" is correct, but that is different.
Collapse


 
Prisca
Prisca
Local time: 23:51
ესპანური -> ინგლისური
Not incorrect, but awkward Jun 2, 2005

"it's in the romantic arena where most problems are caused by Anglo-American misunderstanding

Rephrasing the sentence takes away the ambiguity:
Most problems caused by Anglo-American misunderstanding occur (or take place) in the romantic arena.


 
Konstantin Kisin
Konstantin Kisin  Identity Verified
გაერთიანებული სამეფო
Local time: 04:51
რუსული -> ინგლისური
+ ...
correct and perfectly acceptable Jun 6, 2005

I think it's absolutely fine. I am a native UK English speaker. Also Prisca, the way you rephrased it, the meaning of the sentence is different to the original.

[Edited at 2005-06-06 02:13]


 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:

ამ ფორუმის მოდერატორ(ებ)ი
Fernanda Rocha[Call to this topic]
Rita Pang[Call to this topic]
Simone Catania[Call to this topic]

You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

It is there where I become puzzled






Trados Business Manager Lite
Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio

Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.

More info »
Wordfast Pro
Translation Memory Software for Any Platform

Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users! Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value

Buy now! »