| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12] > | Should the "P" symbol be for internal eyes only? Thread poster: Paul Cohen
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Giles Watson 
Italy
Local time: 19:22
Italian to English
In memoriam | You'd lose your bet | Mar 13, 2009 |
PRen wrote:
And I'd be willing to bet that this was exactly the site owner's intent in instituting this ridiculous attempt to win members some kind of recognition. It's wilful misrepresentation.
No, PRen, that was not the stated aim at the outset of the certification programme.
On 9 September last year, I received a message from the site staff to say "Congratulations on being accepted as the very first participant in the PRO-tag program".
AFAIR, the original purpose was to provide a flag *within the Proz community* that would mark out more experienced (or whatever) members from the masses. I joined at the start to see if I could help and how it would develop. Sadly, though, certification doesn't seem to be going anywhere useful. Understandably enough, some people equate it with a professional qualification, which it never set out to be, and alongside the senior Proz members involved whom I know and respect, there are plenty of other now certified translators that I have come to know and avoid
This isn't Proz.com's fault, of course. The same risks obtain for any certification scheme - plenty of poor translators are members of professional associations - but whereas ATA and the like impose an examination for admission, Proz is in effect selecting after admission and by delegating much of the selection process to peer review, it is leaving the door open to log-rollers.
All in all, I would be happier if Proz dropped the certification scheme and re-introduced the gold stars. Length of membership may be a relatively trivial detail but it is at least objective.
FWIW
Giles
| | | | Paul Cohen
Greenland
Local time: 16:22
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Names are very important | Mar 13, 2009 |
Nikki Graham wrote:
Would you find the scheme more acceptable if the name was changed to, for example, "Proz.com Rated PRO", or something else that didn't use the word certified?
Hi Nikki,
Yes, names are very important. I think removing the word "certified" from the title would go a long ways toward clearing up any confusion that potential clients might experience.
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 19:22
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | Another suggestion... | Mar 13, 2009 |
How about "ProZ.com Recognized Translator"? (or the badge might be called just "ProZ.com Recognition"). This would clearly state that it is a recognition from the site (for whatever merits they consider relevant) and would not suggest that any linguistic evaluation is involved.
| | | | sarandor
United States
Local time: 13:22
English to Russian
+ ...
| ATA certification exams are also graded by peers | Mar 13, 2009 |
Giles Watson wrote:
The same risks obtain for any certification scheme - plenty of poor translators are members of professional associations - but whereas ATA and the like impose an examination for admission, Proz is in effect selecting after admission and by delegating much of the selection process to peer review, it is leaving the door open to log-rollers.
ATA sends each exam translation to two graders chosen among translators who passed the exam. It's the same peer-review process.
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Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 19:22
English to German
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| Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 20:22
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
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lexical wrote:
In most developed countries, misleading consumers is viewed as criminally liable and it would be quite interesting to see this tested in the courts of some European countries that have strict views on certification of any kind.
Agreed. ProZ itself has declared that neither it nor it's moderators are "linguistic authorities", so handing out any "linguistic certificates" by such a commercial organisation most probably will be considered as a criminal offence in EU countries. You know- you might be prosecuted and pay in fines more than your company is worth in EU for an ad like "Eat our chocolates and you'll be happy", because eating whatever chocolate doesn't guarantee any happiness.
Uldis
| | | | | Several violations on applying this Program. | Mar 13, 2009 |
Definition of ProZ.com's Scope
The following definition of ProZ.com's scope is intended to ensure that site activities remain focused on the site's goals, as outlined in the ProZ.com Mission Statement. Site users are expected to limit their site activities, postings and communications to the site's scope as defined herein. Those who use ProZ.com for other purposes will be denied access to the service, without regard to their status as paying or non-paying members.
Here (of course lawyers can go deeply) the members are divided into two groups only basing on the payment status.
ProZ.com's mission is to provide tools and opportunities that translators, translation companies, and others in the language industry use to:
1. network,
2. expand their businesses,
3. improve their work, and
4. have more fun
It says to provide tools and opportunities so they will be able to network, expand business, improve work and have fun. But it does not say that site may create its own network or expand & improve businesses and works selected members.
Because of the said program although members pay for their membership they can not benefit from those tools. And there is not any statement in site's Scope and Mission that site may choose between its members (except payment)
There are two kind of members here Paying and Non-paying.
And site has no option to select between its members on whatever grounds would it be. Applying this Program also spoils site's neutrality on its members.
I would like to call those who has Ps, be neutral on this issue. Of course having a quality sign (despite the fact that site states otherwise) on your profiles is a good thing. But it creates unequal conditions for the other people and its validity is disputable.
Also by applying this Program site put other members (who has not the sign P) professionally and personally in uncomfortable situation so that their businesses, images, personality and eligibility affected negatively. And this issue also should be compensated by the site in some way.
Those are the other side of the said Ps.
[Edited at 2009-03-14 00:01 GMT]
| | | | | On the sunny side of the street | Mar 13, 2009 |
Hey guys,
Why so many negative vibrations and resentment? You are focusing on the "negative" (according to some) aspects of the site instead of focusing on the bright side.
This is a private website, it`s a bussiness, a commercial enterprise. Henry does his best to run the place. In order to get more members, the site (as any other site) makes up more and more features and benefits for those members. Is that wrong?
In spite of, or besides of being a commerc... See more Hey guys,
Why so many negative vibrations and resentment? You are focusing on the "negative" (according to some) aspects of the site instead of focusing on the bright side.
This is a private website, it`s a bussiness, a commercial enterprise. Henry does his best to run the place. In order to get more members, the site (as any other site) makes up more and more features and benefits for those members. Is that wrong?
In spite of, or besides of being a commercial site, ProZ is the best site for translators, it helps us network, meet, learn, work, study, improve and meet clients.
Yes, we can always ask for more. But we build a second floor over a first floor, not from scratch. Things are done step by step. Help us all improve the site. Do not destroy or undermine it. Everybody is free to come or leave if felt it`s not worth it.
And the Pro Certification goes in the right direction, I believe, as it was said by many in this and in other threads before, helping us to imporve and be better professionals.
Again, why don`t we all focus on the bright side? Please, cross the street, come to the sunny side. ▲ Collapse
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Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 20:22
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| I do not doubt good intentions, however... | Mar 14, 2009 |
Walter Landesman wrote:
Why so many negative vibrations and resentment? You are focusing on the "negative" (according to some) aspects of the site instead of focusing on the bright side.
I'd like to.
This is a private website, it`s a bussiness, a commercial enterprise. Henry does his best to run the place. In order to get more members, the site (as any other site) makes up more and more features and benefits for those members. Is that wrong?
Yes- it is VERY WRONG- if he undertakes to "Certify" translators in all to-from language pairs, including even ones whose names he has never heard of. And he himself has countless times stressed, that neither ProZ nor its moderators are "linguistic authorities" (Even in English). Or will the Staff evaluate our translation quality by comparing it to results of Google Translate?
I am one of 2 Latvian localisation leaders- to whom you will give to evaluate my translation- to my colleague? And hers to me? And our both to the people we threw out of the localisation team because of inadequate knowledge of a native language?
I guess we all have been there when our highly specialised translations were evaluated by some "birth and death certificates" agency and returned with 90% corrections...
In spite of, or besides of being a commercial site, ProZ is the best site for translators, it helps us network, meet, learn, work, study, improve and meet clients.
I fail to see what that has to do with the issue at hand.
And the Pro Certification goes in that direction, I believe, in the right direction, as it was said by mnany in this and in other threads before, helping us to imporve and be better professionals.
Will you testify before EU court that my chocolate did make you happy and did remove all your problems?
Uldis
[Rediģēts plkst. 2009-03-14 00:25 GMT]
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 11:22
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Can't we discuss another isues?
Do you really think life on Earth (or eventually, in Proz) will change if we keep talking 9 or 10 pages about this "P"?
| | | | | Sure, we can discuss other issues ... | Mar 14, 2009 |
Yaotl Altan wrote:
Time
Can't we discuss another isues?
Do you really think life on Earth (or eventually, in Proz) will change if we keep talking 9 or 10 pages about this "P"?
.. but on another thread. Something else here would be "off topic"
| | | | Amy Duncan (X)
Brazil
Local time: 14:22
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| Yes, indeedy... | Mar 14, 2009 |
[quote]Walter Landesman wrote:
Hey guys,
Why so many negative vibrations and resentment? You are focusing on the "negative" (according to some) aspects of the site instead of focusing on the bright side.
This is a private website, it`s a bussiness, a commercial enterprise. Henry does his best to run the place. In order to get more members, the site (as any other site) makes up more and more features and benefits for those members. Is that wrong?
In spite of, or besides of being a commercial site, ProZ is the best site for translators, it helps us network, meet, learn, work, study, improve and meet clients.
Yes, we can always ask for more. But we build a second floor over a first floor, not from scratch. Things are done step by step. Help us all improve the site. Do not destroy or undermine it. Everybody is free to come or leave if felt it`s not worth it.
And the Pro Certification goes in the right direction, I believe, as it was said by many in this and in other threads before, helping us to imporve and be better professionals.
Again, why don`t we all focus on the bright side? Please, cross the street, come to the sunny side.
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| Help improve the site? | Mar 14, 2009 |
Walter Landesman wrote:
Yes, we can always ask for more. But we build a second floor over a first floor, not from scratch. Things are done step by step. Help us all improve the site.
Hi, Walter - what do you think we've been trying to do for the past ten years?
[Edited at 2009-03-14 01:29 GMT]
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Yaotl Altan wrote:
Can't we discuss another isues?
Do you really think life on Earth (or eventually, in Proz) will change if we keep talking 9 or 10 pages about this "P"?
Hi Yaotl,
You are right. Life on Earth will still exist after we discuss this issue. I`m off.
BTW, and being off topic, I just wanted to say hi to you.
Long time no see!
Salu2
Walter
| | | | | Regarding some comments | Mar 14, 2009 |
I don't post in the forums much at all, but I am an avid reader. I am one of those who have a "P" symbol and I am happy and honored to have it. It actually means a lot to me to have been evaluated by other translators and translation agencies in my language pair on this site and them believing that I am a good candidate for this program.
What struck me most about this thread was the posts that compared the Proz.com Certified program to being certified by Amazon, Walmart or yo... See more I don't post in the forums much at all, but I am an avid reader. I am one of those who have a "P" symbol and I am happy and honored to have it. It actually means a lot to me to have been evaluated by other translators and translation agencies in my language pair on this site and them believing that I am a good candidate for this program.
What struck me most about this thread was the posts that compared the Proz.com Certified program to being certified by Amazon, Walmart or your favorite chocolate retailer. Isn't Proz.com a web site for translators? Being reviewed by fellow translators can't be compared to being reviewed by fellow shoppers of movies, toilet paper or gourmet chocolates.
My 2 cents,
Solfrid ▲ Collapse
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