| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12] > | Should the "P" symbol be for internal eyes only? Thread poster: Paul Cohen
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Maria Karra 
United States
Local time: 11:41
Member (2000)
Greek to English
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M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
I would like to call those who has Ps, be neutral on this issue. Of course having a quality sign (despite the fact that site states otherwise) on your profiles is a good thing. But it creates unequal conditions for the other people and its validity is disputable.
OK, let's be neutral. I have a P and I'm happy to be recognized by my peers as a good translator and colleague, but it does bother me (quite a lot, to be honest) that the word "certified" is used. I find it utterly misleading. Jabberwock's suggestion, "ProZ.com Recognized Translator", would make much more sense to me.
Maria
| | | | Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 17:41
English to French
+ ...
For the sake of the forums and the forums only, I would prefer a discreet set of colours for peoples' names :
- member = red
- paying member = green
- certified = black
The only other detail I would retain would be the language pairs, which is part of the core identity for a translator, and explains a lot of the posts. For the rest I can always click on someone's profile.
That would look cool imho.
Oh yes, the Thread Starter, Sta... See more For the sake of the forums and the forums only, I would prefer a discreet set of colours for peoples' names :
- member = red
- paying member = green
- certified = black
The only other detail I would retain would be the language pairs, which is part of the core identity for a translator, and explains a lot of the posts. For the rest I can always click on someone's profile.
That would look cool imho.
Oh yes, the Thread Starter, Staff and Moderator reminders remain necessary, of course. ▲ Collapse
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Maria Karra wrote:
I'm happy to be recognized by my peers as a good translator and colleague,
Maria
I can't find a word to say for such kind of point of view.
So all other people here who do not have Ps are bad?
Solfrid Lokslid wrote:
I don't post in the forums much at all, but I am an avid reader. I am one of those who have a "P" symbol and I am happy and honored to have it. It actually means a lot to me to have been evaluated by other translators and translation agencies in my language pair on this site and them believing that I am a good candidate for this program.
What struck me most about this thread was the posts that compared the Proz.com Certified program to being certified by Amazon, Walmart or your favorite chocolate retailer. Isn't Proz.com a web site for translators? Being reviewed by fellow translators can't be compared to being reviewed by fellow shoppers of movies, toilet paper or gourmet chocolates.
My 2 cents,
Solfrid
You use the word evaluated,
So the same comment as above for you.
This program completely about the "Good Citizenship" and nothing more.
So those Ps help you to say that you are good/best/king translator then congratulations for upgrading.
And another suggestion for the next year to create a new program like Universal PRO, that extends the quality to the other Galaxies.
I am strictly protesting those who behave those posts here disrespectfully and singing songs of friendships or asking about changing the world.
Thanks every eyes read my posts.
No more posts from me.
Best Regards,
M. Ali
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Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 11:41
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
M. Ali Bayraktar wrote: Maria Karra wrote:
I'm happy to be recognized by my peers as a good translator and colleague,
Maria
I can't find a word to say for such kind of point of view. So all other people here who do not have Ps are bad?
Is that what you understood I said? Please read again. You missed my point completely.
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Maria Karra wrote:
Jabberwock's suggestion, "ProZ.com Recognized Translator", would make much more sense to me.
Yes, I think the semantics of that are better.
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:41
Flemish to English
+ ...
| P and Pi : The proof of the pudding is in the eating? | Mar 14, 2009 |
When you participate in exams of official bodies, your copy is evaluated by several professionals who only get to see a number. They evaluate it according to certain standards, based what is written on paper, and not based upon a profile or a profile page.
These different professionals mark the exam copy and when they come to a weighed conclusion/average, the name of the applicant is revealed to the president of the jury.
The examiners themselves never get to know the names of who is... See more When you participate in exams of official bodies, your copy is evaluated by several professionals who only get to see a number. They evaluate it according to certain standards, based what is written on paper, and not based upon a profile or a profile page.
These different professionals mark the exam copy and when they come to a weighed conclusion/average, the name of the applicant is revealed to the president of the jury.
The examiners themselves never get to know the names of who is behind the copies.
Such a method of evaluation is neutral and excludes favoritism.
It would greatly enhance the value of the "P".
Moreover, it would be helpful to explain the types of errors -against grammar, choice of terminology, spelling, meaning- which are made. Thus it becomes a learning process for the examinee.
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For interpreting, let’s introduce "Pi".
The criteria would be less difficult: only those graduated from an interpreting school recognized by Ciuti.org or members of Aiic would get a Pi after their name.
Both organizations guarantee a high-level conference interpreter training. At interpreter schools, you have to pass admission tests to get in, go through one or two years of training and pass exams at which the judges are professional interpreters. At the start of the career as an interpreter, the chaff is already separated from the wheat.
A well-founded approach to "P" and "Pi" would this site make a more professional place.
Not a hodgepodge of people turning into translators by creating a profile page and shouting out loud on their profile and forums how professional they are. If you fail at EU or UN, you don't get a chance to shout. You can only learn from your mistakes and hope to do better next time.
Proz.com could even link P to top-paying jobs and make it impossible for those without P to bid for those jobs. First prove your worth based on neutral tests and then get top-rates. That is how it goes in the real world. The winner takes it all.
[Edited at 2009-03-14 12:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Benefits for whom? | Mar 14, 2009 |
Walter Landesman wrote:
In order to get more members, the site (as any other site) makes up more and more features and benefits for those members. Is that wrong?
The problem is that the PRO feature not only doesn't benefit all members; it damages some (most?) of us by making our profiles look somewhat lackluster in comparison to others. It was wrong to introduce such a change without the approval of paying members.
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| PRO Certification from Proz.com | Mar 14, 2009 |
Eduardo López Herrero wrote:
The problem is that the PRO feature not only doesn't benefit all members; it damages some (most?) of us by making our profiles look somewhat lackluster in comparison to others. It was wrong to introduce such a change without the approval of paying members.
Hello Eduardo and all,
I disagree with your comment (and other similar comments), which I personally find exaggerated.
Obviously *EVERYONE* who registers and becomes a paying member of Proz.com can apply to this program, so no one is being "discriminated" from being accepted or at least for applying to it.
That it is only for paying members? Yes, the reason has been discussed over and over, but basically it has to do with the administrative and technical work involved to check the minimum requirements, based (or let's just better say "inspired"), among other things, on the EN 15038 translation standard you need to fulfill for this badge to be awarded to you: for example, credentials, academic degrees, etc. Somebody has to dedicate time and resources to check this, so it obviously makes sense to have this program only for paying members.
In spite of the fact that in my case I had some administrative problems at first, which led to some confusion and document submittal repetition, I received the corresponding explanation and apologies (which I find a sign of professionalism), so once I got all my credentials/academic information confirmed, I was awarded the PRO badge. [I hope this part is not OFF TOPIC/A RULE VIOLATION, but I needed to say this in order to explain better.]
Due to personal/work priorities, I have had no time to participate in the PRO private forum or group that was formed afterwards, plus I actually have not much interest in this, but I think it is positive to have such an initiative/group to at least follow up on some of the people who are awarded this badge/icon.
Regarding the fact that it may be misleading to potential clients, I believe that if those clients are professional enough to take the time to read the FAQ about this badge, they should get the basic idea behind this symbolic recognition, since, as it has been commented before, here in Proz.com we have all levels of "translators" registered, so for those companies looking for some traditional methods of filtering professionals, the PRO badge may serve as **one** of the *guiding* signs.
But it probably all boils down to, once again, weighing whether paying as a full member and applying for a PRO badge (or taking advantage of any of the features/tools offered by Proz.com) is worth the money or not. That is obviously a personal/subjective decision.
On a final/personal note (not aimed at Eduardo or anyone in this thread in particular), I hope that some of the most negative comments against this PRO badge don't have to do with some kind of personal frustration or vendetta against Proz.com and its founder/staff for not having been awarded the PRO badge because of not fulfilling the said requirements.
Imagine if we all had such excessive public behavior for not passing, for example, the United Nations' translation exams. I think it's obvious that how you express dissent (or lack of success), or merely how you express a personal point of view, is also a sign of how truly professional you are.
Saludos,
Ivette
| | | | | I totallly agree with Walter. | Mar 14, 2009 |
[quote]Walter Landesman wrote:
Hey guys,
Why so many negative vibrations and resentment? You are focusing on the "negative" (according to some) aspects of the site instead of focusing on the bright side.
This is a private website, it`s a bussiness, a commercial enterprise. Henry does his best to run the place. In order to get more members, the site (as any other site) makes up more and more features and benefits for those members. Is that wrong?
In spite of, or besides of being a commercial site, ProZ is the best site for translators, it helps us network, meet, learn, work, study, improve and meet clients.
Yes, we can always ask for more. But we build a second floor over a first floor, not from scratch. Things are done step by step. Help us all improve the site. Do not destroy or undermine it. Everybody is free to come or leave if felt it`s not worth it.
And the Pro Certification goes in the right direction, I believe, as it was said by many in this and in other threads before, helping us to imporve and be better professionals.
Again, why don`t we all focus on the bright side? Please, cross the street, come to the sunny side.
| | | | | Good discussion | Mar 14, 2009 |
Hi all,
Good discussion here. A number of topics have been raised here that are legitimate topics for debate.
There are also some misconceptions. In the interest of furthering the discussion, I would like to make a request: If you have not yet reviewed the information that has made available on the program, would you take a few minutes to do so now?
An overvi... See more Hi all,
Good discussion here. A number of topics have been raised here that are legitimate topics for debate.
There are also some misconceptions. In the interest of furthering the discussion, I would like to make a request: If you have not yet reviewed the information that has made available on the program, would you take a few minutes to do so now?
An overview of the program is provided here: http://www.proz.com/pro-tag/info
Under the "About" tab, in addition to the "Overview" link, please also click on "Requirements for freelancers". That page includes a graphical representation of the screening process.
There is an FAQ tab on the page, too.
Finally, if you are logged in, I advise you to click on the "Apply now" tab. (Don't worry, this will not result in an application begin submitted.) Just looking at the interfaces of the application will give you some insight into how the screening process works. Click on the large images at the top of the page marked "Translation ability", "Business reliability" and "'Good citizenship'", and you will get a brief explanation of what is being screened for, and what information may be required of applicants. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | One more thing... | Mar 14, 2009 |
At the risk of appearing to contradict other staff members and the rule that has been cited, I would say that program participants should not be too concerned about sharing details of the program. I think what happened is that those staff members leading the screening process wanted to proceed carefully (wisely), and the impression may have been given that there was something secretive about the program. This is not the case. Unless there is something you know that would compromise the integrity... See more At the risk of appearing to contradict other staff members and the rule that has been cited, I would say that program participants should not be too concerned about sharing details of the program. I think what happened is that those staff members leading the screening process wanted to proceed carefully (wisely), and the impression may have been given that there was something secretive about the program. This is not the case. Unless there is something you know that would compromise the integrity of the screening process, you can share just about anything about the program and even screening process. ▲ Collapse
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| Please stop trying to diss people who have expressed disagreement about the P badge | Mar 14, 2009 |
ICL wrote:
On a final/personal note (not aimed at Eduardo or anyone in this thread in particular), I hope that some of the most negative comments against this PRO badge don't have to do with some kind of personal frustration or vendetta against Proz.com and its founder/staff for not having been awarded the PRO badge because of not fulfilling the said requirements.
Imagine if we all had such excessive public behavior for not passing, for example, the United Nations' translation exams. I think it's obvious that how you express dissent (or lack of success), or merely how you express a personal point of view, is also a sign of how truly professional you are.
Saludos,
Ivette
Why would anyone ever assume that an open forum discussion expressing doubts/reservations (= negative comments) about the P badge stems from "some kind of personal frustration or vendetta against Proz.com and its founder/staff for not having been awarded the PRO badge because of not fulfilling the said requirements ?? Isn't against the ruleZ to speculate on what others are thinking??
Why assume that those of us with objections about the P badge are "rejects" or translators so lowly that we don't meet the requirements? That is downright insulting-has it ever occurred to you that many of us may have never even applied for it because we don't want to??
I also don't like the fact that the 'don't be negative' battle cry is used by some individuals to try to stop all discussions perceived as "anti".
Heated discussions go way back on Proz and in the past have produced some fine improvements (like being able to edit our peer comments/replies).
Are we out to 'get' the site or its founder? Definitely not and the insinuation is way out of line.
| | | | | very subjective | Mar 14, 2009 |
the selection of the "top translators" who have lead the screening process was based on absolute subjectivity... how would Proz.com staff be able to know the actual linguistic capacity of the people selected for this purpose? I know some of them and I can tell you that I would never outsource a job to them... the criteria are also very loose. Some P members have asked over 5,000 Kudoz questions... Therefore, the whole "P program" is, AFAIC, flawed... apart from being very misleading too... sorry... See more the selection of the "top translators" who have lead the screening process was based on absolute subjectivity... how would Proz.com staff be able to know the actual linguistic capacity of the people selected for this purpose? I know some of them and I can tell you that I would never outsource a job to them... the criteria are also very loose. Some P members have asked over 5,000 Kudoz questions... Therefore, the whole "P program" is, AFAIC, flawed... apart from being very misleading too... sorry to be negative, again...
edited for typos
[Edited at 2009-03-14 14:10 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Yes, let's stay focused on the issue at hand | Mar 14, 2009 |
writeaway wrote:
Why would anyone ever assume that an open forum discussion expressing doubts/reservations (= negative comments) about the P badge stems from "some kind of personal frustration or vendetta against Proz.com and its founder/staff for not having been awarded the PRO badge because of not fulfilling the said requirements ??
... the insinuation is way out of line.
Yes, I suppose Ivette had no ill intentions, and I for one did not understand her to be referring to anyone in particular in this discussion, but still, I agree that is would be best to try and keep that sort of remark out of this discussion.
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