| გვერდების რაოდენობა თემაში: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | 校对/审需要怎样的资格?此例的"校"并不添花 თემის ავტორი: redred
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ysun 
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ინგლისური -> ჩინური
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redred,
经你修改的译文确实比原译文好了许多。不过我认为还有改进余地，故提出几点意见供你参考。
The most effective diet pills worldwide.
是否改为：
The most effective diet pills available worldwide. 或 The most effective diet pills in the world.
2 capsules are equal to 3-hour exercise, losing about 3kilo to 5kilo in one week.
�... See more redred,
经你修改的译文确实比原译文好了许多。不过我认为还有改进余地，故提出几点意见供你参考。
The most effective diet pills worldwide.
是否改为：
The most effective diet pills available worldwide. 或 The most effective diet pills in the world.
2 capsules are equal to 3-hour exercise, losing about 3kilo to 5kilo in one week.
是否改为：
2 capsules are equivalent to a 3-hour exercise session, helping you lose about 3 to 5 kilos in just one week.
2. Capsules taken per day, it is very easier and convenient.
是否改为：
Taking 2 capsules per day, it is very easy and convenient. 如果想说 easier，那么后面也应该用比较级 more convenient。
Daidaihua herbal extract can directionally dissipate the excessive fat around thighs, waist, buns, arms and face in a short period of time and drain oil and reduce fat to curve one’s figure rather than to reduce body water level to lose weight.
既然 rather than 后面用动词不定式 "to reduce"，那么前面也应该用动词不定式。所以，最好把前面的 “can + 动词”改为 “is able to + 动词不定式”。
4. A natural dietary supplement made from daidaihua herbal extracts which controls your appetite, losing weight faster without any side effect. No diet plan is needed and beautified one’s skin, green botanical selection in particular. Not only is it free of toxicity and adverse influence, but also its distinguished blood flow that enhances the anti-oxidant.
是否改为：
4. A natural dietary supplement made from daidaihua herbal extracts which controls your appetite and helps you lose weight faster without any side effect.（看来这是个短语而不是句子。最好改成句子。）No diet plan is needed and it will beautify your skin, particularly, with the green botanical selection. Not only is it free of toxicity and adverse influence, but also it is able to improve your blood flow that enhances the anti-oxidant.
由于没见到原文，所以我改得不一定对，仅供你参考。 ▲ Collapse
| | | | redred
ჩინეთი
Local time: 17:41
ინგლისური -> ჩინური
+ ...
თემის ავტორი
The most effective diet pills available worldwide. 或 The most effective diet pills in the world.(ysun)
are available行不?available是形容词。
.........................................................................
2 capsules are equivalent to a 3-hour exercise session, helping you lose about 3 to 5 kilos in just one week.(ysun)
加了just，想表示很快见效,加强了语气。
............................................................... See more The most effective diet pills available worldwide. 或 The most effective diet pills in the world.(ysun)
are available行不?available是形容词。
.........................................................................
2 capsules are equivalent to a 3-hour exercise session, helping you lose about 3 to 5 kilos in just one week.(ysun)
加了just，想表示很快见效,加强了语气。
.................................................................................
2 capsules taken per day, it is very easier and convenient.
是否改为：
Taking 2 capsules per day, it is very easy and convenient. 如果想说 easier，那么后面也应该用比较级 more convenient。(ysun)
Capsules taken,语法没错吧，(are) taken是过去分词，常见英文省略了are和is的用法。
............................................................................
Daidaihua herbal extract can directionally dissipate the excessive fat around thighs, waist, buns, arms and face in a short period of time and drain oil and reduce fat to curve one’s figure rather than to reduce body water level to lose weight.
既然 rather than 后面用动词不定式 "to reduce"，那么前面也应该用动词不定式。所以，最好把前面的 “can + 动词”改为 “is able to + 动词不定式”。(ysun)
因为中文是“可以”，大家用“can”的多。
纠为：Daidaihua herbal extract is able to directionally dissipate the excessive fat around thighs, waist, buns, arms and face in a short period of time and drain oil and reduce fat to curve one’s figure rather than to reduce body water level to lose weight.
................................................................................
4. A natural dietary supplement made from daidaihua herbal extracts which controls your appetite, losing weight faster without any side effect. No diet plan is needed and beautified one’s skin, green botanical selection in particular. Not only is it free of toxicity and adverse influence, but also its distinguished blood flow that enhances the anti-oxidant.
是否改为：
4. A natural dietary supplement made from daidaihua herbal extracts which controls your appetite and helps you lose weight faster without any side effect.（看来这是个短语而不是句子。最好改成句子。）No diet plan is needed and it will beautify your skin, particularly, with the green botanical selection. Not only is it free of toxicity and adverse influence, but also it is able to improve your blood flow that enhances the anti-oxidant.(ysun)
老孙发贴前我的版本已改为（上面是旧的）： No diet plan is needed, beautifying one’s skin, green botanical selected in particular.
[Edited at 2009-05-02 11:12 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | wherestip
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ჩინური -> ინგლისური
+ ...
ysun wrote:
wherestip wrote:
我同意你说的. 就校审来讲, 我认为给你作审议的确实作得比较差. 似乎只企图将你原有的句子顺一顺. 但我本人觉得根本没有改到点子上, 还不如不改. 这种校审完全没有起到校审的作用.
我同意 Steve 的意见。虽然 redred 的译文尚有改进余地，但修改后的译文却并无多大改进。比较 redred 的译文和校稿者修改的译文之后，我发现主要改动如下：
1. 校稿者把某些短句改成了一系列的 -ing 结构。我认为这种结构可以适当地用一用，但一连串地用就有点过分。所以，我也觉得还不如不改。
2. 校稿者把 many departments 改为 such many departments，确实是画蛇添足。要改也应该是 "so many"。校稿者犯这种错误，说明基本功还不扎实。
3. 校稿者把“至今未出现兑付风险和管理风险问题”译为 “no payment-related risk and management risk have occurred”，是误解了原文的意思。原文的意思是（经“严格控制”后）在“兑付风险和管理风险”方面至今未出现问题。其实质是至今未出现问题，而不是至今未出现风险。风险是客观存在。如果风险不存在，那还用得着他去“严格控制风险”吗？
应该说原文就存在不少问题，从而给翻译带来一定程度的困难。例如，“2008年是不平常的一年，金融危机爆发，国内外经济形势严峻，信托环境和市场条件恶劣，公司换证受阻，信托业务几乎陷入萎缩或停顿”这个长句，应该分为几个短句，而不应该“一逗到底”。“我们坚守稳健经营与创新开拓并举”的后面应该加上“方针”或“原则”之类的词，否则就不通。 还有，“分管的部门多，工作量大”只不过是工作的性质或特点，并不是什么成绩。所以把它列为工作概要的第一条简直是让人莫名其妙。 从这种水平的原文出发，就不能对译文要求过高。翻译的任务是以另一种语言表达原文的意思，而没有义务在原文基础上加以提高和改善。校稿者的首要任务则是改错，而不是锦上添花，更不是画蛇添足。
Yueyin,
I agree 100% with your detailed analysis. You've exactly pinpointed the problem of making unnecessary changes ... or even worse, making erroneous modifications. On the other hand, no corrections were made to a few of the misused words and expressions, for instance, "renovation", "full of hand". I believe this is the most important part of an editor's job.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/renovate
The follow-on suggestions you made to the herbal supplement text were also excellent.
| | | | wherestip
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ჩინური -> ინგლისური
+ ...
wherestip wrote:
On the other hand, no corrections were made to a few of the misused words and expressions, for instance, "renovation", "full of hand". I believe this is the most important part of an editor's job.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/renovate
创新开拓
My guess the word redred wanted to use for this Chinese term was "innovation".
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/innovation
Of course the word "renovate" can also be used in the sense of "revive", "reinvigorate". But the Chinese expression 创新开拓 doesn't really lend itself to this particular meaning.
ysun wrote:
校稿者的首要任务则是改错，而不是锦上添花，更不是画蛇添足。
I agree. The foremost responsibility of the proofreader/editor ought to be to catch errors like this.
[Edited at 2009-05-02 17:05 GMT]
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ysun
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ინგლისური -> ჩინური
+ ...
redred,
不必客气。这样的讨论是很有益的。原译文中问题很多，改起来确实比较费劲。不过，你已经纠正了原译文的许多错误。
redred wrote:
The most effective diet pills available worldwide. 或 The most effective diet pills in the world.(ysun)
are available行不?available是形容词。
“The most effective diet pills available worldwide” 相当于 “It is the most effective diet pills available worldwide”，重点在于 “The most effective diet pills” 。如果改为 “The most effective diet pills are available worldwide”，那么重点就转移到了 “are available” 上，其意思稍微有点变化。 “The most effective diet pills worldwide” 也不能算错，但加上 available 比较合乎习惯。
redred wrote:
2 capsules are equivalent to a 3-hour exercise session, helping you lose about 3 to 5 kilos in just one week.(ysun)
加了just，想表示很快见效,加强了语气。
原译文 “one week can lose about 3-5kgs” 是不合乎逻辑的。你企图纠正这一错误，但在你修改后的译文中，分词 losing 的逻辑主体与主语(2 capsules) 仍不一致。所以，我将其改为 “helping you lose”。
redred wrote:
2 capsules taken per day, it is very easier and convenient.
是否改为：
Taking 2 capsules per day, it is very easy and convenient. 如果想说 easier，那么后面也应该用比较级 more convenient。(ysun)
Capsules taken,语法没错吧，(are) taken是过去分词，常见英文省略了are和is的用法。
“Taking 2 capsules per day, it is very easy and convenient” 相当于 “It is very easy and convenient taking (to take) 2 capsules per day”。it 是指 taking 或 to take。不知你句子中的 it 是指什么？是想引导一个主语从句？
redred wrote:
因为中文是“可以”，大家用“can”的多。
关键在于，在比较两个句子成分时，前后词性（名词、动名词、形容词或动词不定式）应该一致。例如：
As with liposuction, the purpose of a tummy tuck is to reshape the area rather than to reduce body weight.
http://www.ct-surgeons.com/default/General_Surgery_And_Reconstructive_Surgery
redred wrote:
老孙发贴前我的版本已改为（上面是旧的）： No diet plan is needed, beautifying one’s skin, green botanical selected in particular.
原译文 “no diet plan is needed and can beautifies ones skin, green botanical selective in particular” 中问题不少，应该纠正。但你修改后的译文中，beautifying 的逻辑主体还是与前面的主语不一致。另外，“green botanical selected in particular” 是什么成分？你是否想说 “when green botanical is selected in particular”？
另外，原译文 “Not only it is free of toxicity and adverse influence, but also its distinguished blood flow enhancing and anti oxidant” 中的 “its distinguished” 不知是什么意思，而且语法也有问题，应该予以纠正。
| | | | ysun
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ინგლისური -> ჩინური
+ ...
Steve,
Thank you for your comment. I agree that renovation should be replaced by innovation.
| | | | nigerose
ჩინეთი
Local time: 17:41
ჩინური -> ინგლისური
+ ...
很多人批评中国传统英语教学中的语法教学，还有英语考试中的语法试题（包括传统托福考试的语法试题）。在我看来，这些传统的语法教学和考试并非一无是处。
| | | | wherestip
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ჩინური -> ინგლისური
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| a cultural difference | May 3, 2009 |
Zhoudan wrote:
看到老孙贴子里的Gorgeous，想到fabulous，这个词好像无所不在，到处可以用，翻译时看到它，每次都要思量很久。
Zhoudan,
I think you and Yueyin touched on an important language and cultural difference between Chinese and English.
In many situations, there are a lot of different ways to say the same thing in English. For example, to express high commendation, one can choose from an array of different expressions: "great", "super", "superb", "fabulous", "fantastic", "excellent", "awesome", "marvelous", "phenomenal", "terrific", "wonderful", "rad", "neat", "cool", "swell", "stupendous", "sensational", "spectacular", "splendid", "magnificent" ... , the list could go on 
The Chinese equivalent is pretty much the same few options if one truly grasps the English meaning of these words ... 充其量是 "太好了"、 "好极了" or "真棒".
Exactly for this reason, I think it is important to expand one's English vocabulary in order to do a good job of translation in the Chinese and English language pair.
[Edited at 2009-05-03 22:16 GMT]
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ysun
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ინგლისური -> ჩინური
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nigerose wrote:
很多人批评中国传统英语教学中的语法教学，还有英语考试中的语法试题（包括传统托福考试的语法试题）。在我看来，这些传统的语法教学和考试并非一无是处。
同意你的这一看法。中国传统英语教学中的语法教学虽有缺陷，但也不能说是一无是处。至于 TOEFL、GRE 以及 GMAT 考试的语法试题，我认为是大有帮助的。曾有人把中国英语语法教学情况说得很糟。对此，我不能苟同：
http://www.proz.com/post/361415#361415
不过，英语语法很活，得灵活运用。有的人像套用数学公式似的生搬硬套英语语法，那就难免会犯错误。例如，曾有人提过一个 KudoZ 问题：“昨晚我一定是醉了”。结果有人答： “I must be drunk last night”。也有人答： “I must have been drunk last night”。对于后者，提问者就想不通，认为 “must have been drunk” 是现在完成时，不能与 “last night” 连用。于是，他又编了个 “He has come last night” 到 English Kudoz 那里去问，企图说明因为 “He has come last night” 是错的，所以 “I must have been drunk last night” 也一定是错的。其实，“I must have been drunk last night” 与 “He has come last night” 是根本不同的两种句型。结果人家 native English speakers 说，“100% of native English speakers would immediately recognize "must be" as wrong, and "must have been" as right.” 但他还是想不通，非要人家说出理由来。其实大家已经从各种角度给出许多理由，只不过他不能理解而已。
关于 “must have”，Longman Contemporary English-Chinese Dictionary 《朗文现代英汉双解词典》 (p920-921) 解释得很清楚：
Must
2. to be, do, etc., very probably or certainly (past "must have") 必定；非常可能 (过去式为must have): I think they must have left early. 我想他们一定早已走了.
其实，在表达推测语气时，即使没有过去时间状语也可以用 must have been：
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/must_1
3. used to say you think something is very likely to be true or very likely to have happened:
You must have been really upset.
[Edited at 2009-05-04 03:24 GMT]
| | | | redred
ჩინეთი
Local time: 17:41
ინგლისური -> ჩინური
+ ...
თემის ავტორი
国内90％是中译英的多，“民工价”兼以追求日译几千至上万字为目标……大家只要随便打开国内任意一个公司网站的英文版，莫不出现这样那样的错，说明国情如是，大家的水平都要提高也是硬道理。
改错/纠错是英语考试中众考生得分最低的一项。An excerpt from一习题册：综合改错是各种题型中得分率最低的一项，答题平均正确率仅为百分之三十几。测试的难度、综... See more 国内90％是中译英的多，“民工价”兼以追求日译几千至上万字为目标……大家只要随便打开国内任意一个公司网站的英文版，莫不出现这样那样的错，说明国情如是，大家的水平都要提高也是硬道理。
改错/纠错是英语考试中众考生得分最低的一项。An excerpt from一习题册：综合改错是各种题型中得分率最低的一项，答题平均正确率仅为百分之三十几。测试的难度、综合性令许多考生望而生畏，感到无从着手。
下面取自一道改错题，里面有10个错误，如有兴趣大家请纠错。
One of the greatest mysteries of the world, for which scientists have so far been able to find any satisfactory explanation, is the Bermuda Triangle, sometimes called “the Graveyard of the Atlantic”. This is an area of the Western Atlantic between Bermuda and Florida, rough triangular in shape, where since 1845 at least a hundred ships and planes and over a thousand people have disappeared. No wreckage has been found, no bodies, no life-belts or other evidence of disaster. It is as if these planes, ships and people had never existed. In some cases a routine radio message has been received from aircraft reports everything in order a few minutes before all contacts are lost, in others a weak SOS message has been picked up and, in perfect weather, inexplicable references to fog and lost of bearings. In the extraordinary case of five U. S. navy planes disappearing on a routine mission from Florida, the rescue plane sent to locate it also vanished. There have been references to the curious white light which is a feature of the sea in part of this area, and it is interested to note that not only was this white light observed by the astronauts on their way to space, but also noted by Columbus, five centuries ago. That this white light has any connection with the mysterious disappearances is unknown – it is just another curious circumstance unexplained.
Many theories, some bordering at the fantastic, have been advanced to account for the disturbing incidents that occur in the area of the Bermuda Triangle. It has been asked whether these disappearances are caused by extraterrestrial activity, by some undiscovered source of energy, or by some dimension of time or space incomprehension to man. There is no answer and speculation continues as anxiety increases.
[Edited at 2009-05-04 04:16 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | nigerose
ჩინეთი
Local time: 17:41
ჩინური -> ინგლისური
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redred wrote:
国内90％是中译英的多，“民工价”兼以追求日译几千至上万字为目标……大家只要随便打开国内任意一个公司网站的英文版，莫不出现这样那样的错，说明国情如是，大家的水平都要提高也是硬道理。
国内翻译公司用低价忽悠客户，用“民工价”忽悠“翻译民工”，“翻译民工”就用“日译几千至上万字为目标”忽悠翻译公司，最终会发现这样其实在忽悠自己。这真是一个dilemma。
| | | | nigerose
ჩინეთი
Local time: 17:41
ჩინური -> ინგლისური
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我用括号标出可能错误的地方（但感觉错误不止10个），修改就留给别人一展身手吧，我不能独揽一切啊。
[quote]redred wrote:
下面取自一道改错题，里面有10个错误，如有兴趣大家请纠错。
One of the greatest mysteries of the world, for which scientists have so far been （able） to find any satisfactory explanation, is the Bermuda Triangle, sometimes called “the Graveyard of the Atlantic”. This is an area of the Western Atlantic between Bermuda and Florida, （rough） triangular in shape, where since 1845 at least a hundred ships and planes and over a thousand people have disappeared. No wreckage has been found, （no bodies, no life-belts or other evidence of disaster）. It is as if these planes, ships and people had never existed. In some cases a routine radio message has been received from aircraft （reports） everything in order a few minutes before all contacts are lost, in others a weak SOS message has been picked up and, in perfect weather, （inexplicable references to fog and lost of bearings）. In the extraordinary case of five U. S. navy planes disappearing on a routine mission from Florida, the rescue plane sent to locate （it） also vanished. There have been references to the curious white light which is a feature of the sea in part of this area, and it is （interested） to note that not only was this white light observed by the astronauts on their way to space, but also noted by Columbus, five centuries ago. （That） this white light has any connection with the mysterious disappearances is unknown – it is just another curious circumstance unexplained.
Many theories, some bordering （at） the fantastic, have been advanced to account for the disturbing incidents that occur in the area of the Bermuda Triangle. It has been asked whether these disappearances are caused by extraterrestrial activity, by some undiscovered source of energy, or by some dimension of time or space （incomprehension） to man. There is no answer and speculation continues as anxiety increases.
[修改时间: 2009-05-04 07:24 GMT]
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wherestip
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ჩინური -> ინგლისური
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| I think you gotta be careful | May 4, 2009 |
Problems like these are very tricky. What seems to be grammatical errors by strictly applying grammar rules aren't necessarily truly errors.
IMO what looks like dangling sentences in this paragraph is fine. I myself can count ten very localized errors which only require one-word changes in each instance - eight of which have been identified by nigerose, BTW.
I also think problems like this might be too advanced for college entrance exams. It serves very little purpo... See more Problems like these are very tricky. What seems to be grammatical errors by strictly applying grammar rules aren't necessarily truly errors.
IMO what looks like dangling sentences in this paragraph is fine. I myself can count ten very localized errors which only require one-word changes in each instance - eight of which have been identified by nigerose, BTW.
I also think problems like this might be too advanced for college entrance exams. It serves very little purpose when the overall landscape of English education as a second language is the way it is.
[Edited at 2009-05-04 15:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | ysun
შეერთებული შტატები
Local time: 04:41
ინგლისური -> ჩინური
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wherestip wrote:
Problems like these are very tricky. What seems to be grammatical errors by strictly applying grammar rules aren't necessarily truly errors.
我同意 Steve 的上述意见。而且，我也认为错误不止10个。我同意 nigerose 所指出的9个（蓝色所示）。但下面这一句，我认为从语法上讲并非不可以接受：
No wreckage has been found, （no bodies, no life-belts or other evidence of disaster）.
另外，我认为还有其它4处错误（红色所示，括弧内是我的修改意见）。欢迎批评指正。
nigerose wrote:
我用括号标出可能错误的地方（但感觉错误不止10个），修改就留给别人一展身手吧，我不能独揽一切啊。
redred wrote:
下面取自一道改错题，里面有10个错误，如有兴趣大家请纠错。
One of the greatest mysteries of the world, for which scientists have so far been （able） to find any satisfactory explanation, is the Bermuda Triangle, sometimes called “the Graveyard of the Atlantic”. This is an area of the Western Atlantic between Bermuda and Florida, （rough） triangular in shape, where since 1845 at least a hundred ships and planes and over a thousand people have disappeared. No wreckage has been found, （no bodies, no life-belts or other evidence of disaster）. It is as if these planes, ships and people had never existed. In some cases a routine radio message has (had) been received from aircraft （reports） everything (was) in order a few minutes before all contacts are (were) lost, in others a weak SOS message has been (was) picked up and, in perfect weather, （inexplicable references to fog and lost of bearings）. In the extraordinary case of five U. S. navy planes disappearing on a routine mission from Florida, the rescue plane sent to locate （it） also vanished. There have been references to the curious white light which is a feature of the sea in part of this area, and it is （interested） to note that not only was this white light observed by the astronauts on their way to space, but also noted by Columbus, five centuries ago. （That） this white light has any connection with the mysterious disappearances is unknown – it is just another curious circumstance unexplained.
Many theories, some bordering （at） the fantastic, have been advanced to account for the disturbing incidents that occur in the area of the Bermuda Triangle. It has been asked whether these disappearances are caused by extraterrestrial activity, by some undiscovered source of energy, or by some dimension of time or space （incomprehension） to man. There is no answer and speculation continues as anxiety increases.
[修改时间: 2009-05-04 07:24 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-05-04 21:15 GMT]
| | | | nigerose
ჩინეთი
Local time: 17:41
ჩინური -> ინგლისური
+ ...
No wreckage has been found, （no bodies, no life-belts or other evidence of disaster）.
这句我想参照以下句子进行修改。不改似乎也可以，但感觉比较口语化，而原文是书面文体。
No one has been arreested so far. Neither have the bombers of the Karachi hotel in 2002,( where the New Zealand cricket team was staying), been caught.
... See more No wreckage has been found, （no bodies, no life-belts or other evidence of disaster）.
这句我想参照以下句子进行修改。不改似乎也可以，但感觉比较口语化，而原文是书面文体。
No one has been arreested so far. Neither have the bombers of the Karachi hotel in 2002,( where the New Zealand cricket team was staying), been caught.
http://www.retiredprof.com/1/post/2009/03/attack-on-sri-lankan-cricket-team.html
BTW:
Lesley: Sorry for the appearance of "New Zealand" in the sentence.
[修改时间: 2009-05-05 00:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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